CR hitting in a war?

[sexual harassment panda]

You don't choose. It's an and, not an or.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Only death is certain; you are mistaken.

[coss]

Asking 10k land out of 40k is more than harsh. Usually it works with 10%(one wave) but not 25% lol. I know CR has bad setup and they can't really gain much land from now on but yet ... 25% tax?

[sexual harassment panda]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_taxes_(idiom)

For some reason I thought it was a much older expression.

[MyNameIsMatija]

The real saying goes something like: "you don't HAVE to do a single thing in your life, except die." Emphasis being on the fact nobody can force you to do anything if you are willing to pay the iron price.

[Mike^]

Cant belive CR would ask 25% land, if that is teh case shame on them.... shame on them.

[Crunch]

The ridiculous part is you threatening us in game and starting a drake and now saying you "didn't force CR to train up." Bull****. We'd be ****ing morons if we didn't train. And there's nothing that says you couldn't have talked 10k down to something you felt was more reasonable, and we'd be done with this. Instead you chose to cry about how we cheat, and you don't pay any taxes and then you started a drake.

The only victims here are your kingdommates who expect competent leadership. You let your ego get in the way of what could have been a much simpler exchange.

don't sell yourself short you're still as you say a ****ing moron

[sexual harassment panda]

The real saying goes something like: "you don't HAVE to do a single thing in your life, except die." Emphasis being on the fact nobody can force you to do anything if you are willing to pay the iron price.

Tax man has more iron. That's why they tax man. At best, maybe you force them to use the iron and lose to them. Then they get their taxes anyway.

The iron bank will always have its due.

[sexual harassment panda]

don't sell yourself short you're still as you say a ****ing moron

Never said I wasn't. There's a reason why people tell me what race to play and when to attack. But even I can recognize the stupidity of not training when someone starts a drake and makes threats.

[Meep]

10k was a reach asked for after we tried for a while to get you to actually do diplo and resolve the situation. You were offering zero, after already making us change plans. So we made a similarly ludicrous counter offer

You procrastinated so we had to allocate pool so as to make our top provs safe.

For future reference, diplo early and often and you'll find cfs are generally easy to get and mostly pain free.

If you had actually abided by the deals you made, or even said you had another war coming, this all could have been avoided as well.

[handofthrawn]

handofthrawn, i dont think zauper is playing/leading, believe its Topsy?

Anyway if CR been sitting there expecting war and the KD rearrange to dodge while keeping CR busy, I would expect CR to wave too. Its easy enough to take contact and negotiate a deal, even a deal that would include you to keep acres for war but give a chunk after, it would be in CR best interest to get the most out of such a deal rather then train up and wave into war. So if you didnt attempt CF talks, it would be expected them waving in.

Makes sense Zauper isn't their and a diplo mess happens.

@meep your right on the mark hitting into there war. Granted I don't see any reason CR should give any acres away in general. It was a clear dodge and appropriate response. Just my two cents

[MyNameIsMatija]

Tax man has more iron. That's why they tax man. At best, maybe you force them to use the iron and lose to them. Then they get their taxes anyway.

The iron bank will always have its due.

I can appreciate the logic to an extent (although I still can't be forced to do anything while alive) that's not really how it has to work out in-game - this is where mutual destruction steps in.

[flogger]

don't see why this kd couldn't dodge though? People do that all the time. CR wanted land, this kd didn't want to give land, CR shouldn't be able to hit in war then.

But once you start threatening people with farming out to others, then I think you deserve to get smacked.

[Meep]

don't see why this kd couldn't dodge though? People do that all the time. CR wanted land, this kd didn't want to give land, CR shouldn't be able to hit in war then.

But once you start threatening people with farming out to others, then I think you deserve to get smacked.

Had they said they had an earlier notice, we would have extended cf so we could do other things safely without using our resources.

If you notice a KD, know what their deals with other kds are, and they reneg a deal to farm out to your competition, that's ****ty play in my eyes.

Starting a dragon and respending to notice with threats basically forces us to train and expend all resources.

Its long been my position that when you force other kds to spend significant resources preparing for you, you can expect them to wave you whether you're in conflict of not.

[Proteus]

Here's my personal opinion on the matter and these types of situation in general. Sorry but ASF-style wall of text incoming. Tl;dr version is each situation is different but I do not agree with "I noticed you and will hit you no matter what" stance.

It depends if you are the party that is noticing & seeking conflict or whether you are the one being noticed.
- If you notice someone just to make them train for nothing and arrange a war to escape, leaving the kd you noticed in the dust, then yes, I think the kd you noticed should ****ing hit you, even if you are hostile. I believe that because the kd that noticed and ran clearly did it to ****play and make you waste all resources fully knowing that a conflict would ever happen.
-A perfect example of this was when Simians noticed Abs + HOH together. They knew that they could only war one of those kingdoms but their plan was to make the other two draft and spend all their goal as Simians did not want those kingdoms pumping while they were at war. Anri openly admitted to this.

On Emeriti vs. Pandas two ages ago, that was a different situation than this.
- Emeriti and Pandas had cf expiring and Emeriti was the stronger party. Pandas had approached for a free cf extension and at the time, the age was between Emeriti, Pandas, FS, (maybe BB also cant remember) and we couldn't afford to give a free cf so asked for some land to extend (nothing insulting, 10% was our opening offer and were willing to come down).
-I personally did diplo with hesus. Hesus got mad and told me he was going to FSU us, max meter first while opping us (he had a TM setup), and then would make it a long and painful war. He also said he would notice us and do FSU to us (not the other way around).
-Duration cf ended and Pandas delivered us notice. We prepared for fight. Little did we know that Pandas had an arranged war setup to dodge us and jump into war but make us train and spend all our resources. We found out about this plan few hours before our notice expired. I told Pandas not to dodge because they noticed us and threatened FSU and made us train and that they would be hit. They ignored diplo and went into dodged war anyways so we hit them.
-In spite of being in the right, there were some people that did not like this and we ended up giving Pandas some of their land back and CFed in good faith and on good terms.

The situation at hand:
-I think CR is at fault here for hitting into war. In this case, CR wanted to either tax or fight this kingdom and the other kingdom didn't want to fight (or give up acres it seems like).
-CR proceeded to notice and prepare for conflict
-Other kingdom was able to find another war to dodge CR. A war that they had better chances in than fighting CR.
-At the end of notice CR saw this other kingdom was hostile / in war but decided to hit anyway. This is crossing the line.
-Had the other kingdom noticed CR to make CR train on purpose with no intention to fight, I personally would be OK with CR waving them as punishment since that would be ****play on part of other kd.
-In this case, the other kd found another legit conflict with an in-range kingdom. It wasn't some bogus play of waving some kd 25-50% their land range to dodge CR.
-If it were me personally, I would have told CR that we have the ability to enter into another fight with an in-range kingdom before CR's cf ends and that CR would have no chance to get to us first based on timing of the notice. This would be a courtesy to CR and make diplomacy easier afterwards (since CR wouldn't waste resources training). This is not a requirement but a courtesy that makes relations better and makes diplomacy easier in the future.
-In short, I don't believe in the "I noticed you and you have to fight me no matter what and you can't do anything else or I will wave you regardless" stance. People always have overlapping cfs, shorter/longer notice periods, etc that allow other options. In the case of equally sized top kingdoms, dodging is not advisable as you either get vultured after or risk the other kingdom not taking it to war (and get vultured after) but for smaller kingdoms faced with the prospect of fighting an unbeatable opponent, there are usually ways to dodge by warring someone else. I don't think dodging is a form of ****-play and shouldn't be actioned or punished. Typically the punishment is self inflicted is the kingdom that dodges faces the prospect of being waved right after EOW cf with no notice period. Basically deferring the inevitable (unless they get farmed out of range).