Explore cost deduced

[Avenger]

We use umunk. I'm fine with this.

[Band of Horses]

I think it would actually benefit everyone more if Munk did just like he suggests in this thread and made it optional. Then when he figures something like this out, he didn't disclose it to everyone just implemented it into his bot and told the bot users (who also got him this data). Him sharing this information on the forums gives it to all the other script makers etc (stinger is still a thing right?) when those users didn't help him get the formula. Also, it is more likely that the devs change the formula now next age :P

I don't think harping on the issue is helping anything, Munk's posts imo show he sees a little issue in his actions and has plans to correct that. Kind of like how he stopped removing CR and or his prov from target finder (I think).

[Persain]

If you read the post that isn't what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Tadpole, BoH, Loons, vir, and ThRaZe were definitely all feeling violated because they had previously made quotes about trusting munk.

I was using their quotes to elaborate a point that a level of trust does exist between users and the owners of tools that collect data. In the linked thread there is a very thorough discussion on whether or not these tool owners can and should be trusted. The overall concensus was that players do trust these people and one of the discussed reasons was that it doesn't make sense for them to access your information and break the trust one has to have to use their tool (i.e. reward <risk).

The only criticism I've made of munk is that he has shown he is willing to access your information without your permission for a less than essential reason. Munk has already acknowledged that he could have gone about this better and why the conversation needed to extend beyond that is beyond me

For what its worth Palem of the current "major" bots floating around out there i've used all 3 Stinger, munkbot, and lucidbot. Stinger and munk get all the praise because they have the most polished websites but i know lucidbot is being run by a decent # of kds as well. The general consensus is that none of the hosts would directly use the data to "cheat" (i'd include upoopu/pimp here too) but the feeling i always got was munk was the least secure, followed by stinger (since hes pretty afk from utopia) and then the most secure was lucidbot as each kd has to individually host. Its because any bot that being "actively developed" and not just changed as asked is going to be somewhat insecure.

With that said we personally decided to use lucidbot because it was the least "loud" in irc and seemed so much cleaner (even if not as 100% polished) BUT the guy that hosts ours also hosts for 3-4+ kds (not sure exact amount) and plays in our kd. Its nice to know we dont have to trust and outside player, but even if we didn't have lucidbot the question is...is the bot more useful than the data that could leak. Even if munk actually abused the data more than "determining formulas" the answer would still be yes. Just no reason to be surprised or annoyed unless your data was 100% leaked or say your the bot let anyone pm it asking orders and ALWAYS responded back.

[CR7]

I just feel like its contraproductive for the good of the community to accuse someone that gives to the community as much as munk does to breach people privacy / trust when there is no indication such things has occured besides in Palems head. Since there hasnt been a single munk user that has expressed him/her feeling violated.

I lol'd. Gives? Is that why he "charges" people to use the tools he developed for his own kingdom? More or less forcing people to make a donation to use primary functions of his tools, is hardly a donation.
There are a number of open source software packages that I use and I have made a donation to all of them on my own initiative to help develop & appreciate these. This isn't what munk is doing.

[CR7]

For what its worth Palem of the current "major" bots floating around out there i've used all 3 Stinger, munkbot, and lucidbot. Stinger and munk get all the praise because they have the most polished websites but i know lucidbot is being run by a decent # of kds as well. The general consensus is that none of the hosts would directly use the data to "cheat" (i'd include upoopu/pimp here too) but the feeling i always got was munk was the least secure, followed by stinger (since hes pretty afk from utopia) and then the most secure was lucidbot as each kd has to individually host. Its because any bot that being "actively developed" and not just changed as asked is going to be somewhat insecure.

I fully agree. Being able to clone a copy of the latest update via f.e. github and being able to use your own database as a kingdom would be so much better.
I didn't know LucidBot was still around, I remember using it a long time ago but lately you only hear Stinger & munkbot.

[munk]

I lol'd. Gives? Is that why he "charges" people to use the tools he developed for his own kingdom? More or less forcing people to make a donation to use primary functions of his tools, is hardly a donation.
There are a number of open source software packages that I use and I have made a donation to all of them on my own initiative to help develop & appreciate these. This isn't what munk is doing.

The only function that is disabled if no donation for 90 days is ingame irc and auto fill in war room. I'd like to think that's a very small fraction of all the "primary" functions. I have a number of active kingdoms who have not donated in a longer time than that. However, I would not be able to find time to develop and maintain without the donations. I am very thankful as it allows me to keep my hobby project alive and widely used.

[CR7]

However, I would not be able to find time to develop and maintain without the donations.

I understand. Essentially that is what keeps an opensource community going. My point is that once you start charging for certain features, it is no longer opensource (altho I guess munkbot isn't an opensource project since you're the only person having the code).
Likewise with Stinger I suppose, he's the only person to access his code.

Isn't it an option to publish it on git so that others can help develop it further, making it even better? You would also remove all the questions about security when each kingdom can host it on their own.

[Korp]

I lol'd. Gives? Is that why he "charges" people to use the tools he developed for his own kingdom? More or less forcing people to make a donation to use primary functions of his tools, is hardly a donation.
There are a number of open source software packages that I use and I have made a donation to all of them on my own initiative to help develop & appreciate these. This isn't what munk is doing.

Then I must be a special snowflake, i never donated a single dollar to him.

[Band of Horses]

Then I must be a special snowflake, i never donated a single dollar to him.

You are a special snowflake but that's a different topic.

[Korp]

You are a special snowflake but that's a different topic.

Are we still a bit sensitive since yesterday?

[Band of Horses]

Are we still a bit sensitive since yesterday?

Where you were proven wrong? I feel like you got over it.

[Korp]

Where you were proven wrong? I feel like you got over it.

You didnt prove me wrong about you being naive and gullible you cemented the fact. By bringing even more quotes by Bart believing them being the god sworn truth.

[nickey]

You didnt prove me wrong about you being naive and gullible you cemented the fact. By bringing even more quotes by Bart believing them being the god sworn truth.

Damn Korp do you have the flu? Because you derail topic sick.

[Band of Horses]

You didnt prove me wrong about you being naive and gullible you cemented the fact. By bringing even more quotes by Bart believing them being the god sworn truth.

If you'd like to discuss this I believe it'd be on topic in Sparta hitting on CD. Contextual evidence gives truth to Bart's words, if you have other evidence to the contrary feel free to share it. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and to me that's worth a grain of salt, even a wrong one.

[Korp]

Damn Korp do you have the flu? Because you derail topic sick.

So nickey you still haven't told me what your beef with me is. 8/10 I see you post is some snarky comment towards me.