Make science GREAT again

[Kirill]

I have played this game for a long time. Probably to long.

But now with new owners! Welcome and lets make it great again! I retired last age becasue of the new science system that is more based on luck wich really kills the gameplay. No matter how you play someone is going to be above avrage and someone will be under avrage amount of sci in a kingdom. I would love that the sience eather go back into old layout with buying it. Or modify the science to be non luck based.

Something like:

Fixed base rate - equal for everyone
Modified with buildings, spells- depends on race, pers and % of a building.
With a good balance of base and the modifiers keeping it as friendly towards newbies aswell as advanced for oldies.

This should be the first fix for making utopia GREAT again! :)

[RattleHead]

Going back to how things used to be is NOT how you make things great... Change happens, the game can't be so stagnant- adapt or die(quit). We must push forward!

Everyone hitting caps mid-Age isn't the greatest, but its a work in progress. There are lots of suggestions out there on how to improve the new science system, rather than just reverting back because some people are annoyed that others might 'randomly' have more science than them.

Some Ages the RNG will go your way, some Ages not so much... Gotta deal!

[Thunder TA]

Whats different than any other age,There have always been people with more science or less.That part hasnt changed at all.

[RattleHead]

Exactly. Problem(for some) is that this way it isn't always the same people.

[Kirill]

Whats different than any other age,There have always been people with more science or less.That part hasnt changed at all.

You are now comparing kingdoms vs kingdoms? Becasue any given province within a kingdom could potentialy have the same amount science. Sure the old system har acres based gains. But you got equal bpa. You had the option to micro manage this. Alot based on strategy of yours play aswell as kingdom.

We are now talking of a base rate that is set. example 0.08 daily. But as long as this mechanics is NOT random we are advancing. Modify with labs and rev. Equal for everyone so yours play matter not some random factor. avg of 125 could loook like bottom range of 100 and top range of 150. In a war this matter invidual provinces. Being sci pumped and not. Chained most likely! In a war i tracked 80% of the chained provinces was on the bottom range of the science tree. But sure imagine lacking one major sci cat in a war. Thats pumped vs unpumped. Utopia never been played on luck and this have to change. Iam buying the science just not how it preforms the random factor need to be removed.

[Goodwitch]

Exactly. Problem(for some) is that this way it isn't always the same people.

no, the issue is in the past science as anything else was skill based and not luck based as it is now.
I was one of the first to max science last age and this age. I still hate it. I don't want them to dumb down the game to become just another facebook game that you log in between tasks to kill time if you feel like it.

[Thunder TA]

No im stating provinces never had the same science under the old system.half the people in the game never had science

[BoBDuDe]

I think we need to make it harder to max science...
Maybe:
On abduct revert them to recruit
Increase spawn time between scientists
Increase effect from abduct and amnesia
With capped science rate... Capped # of scientists
LOWER progress rate... Now i think that might sound backward but hear me out...
Lower progress rate will increase value of abucts or amneisiawuth a capped # of scientists
Maybe include a thief op of assassinate scientists...

[Iraze]

The old science system is way better. This system we have now is maybe the worst thing that could have happened to this game. Let's lay out some major problems..

1. Science, for everyone, maxed mid age. BORING. No skill required. May as well not have a system in place.

2. + magic and + thief is no longer a plus for Tms. It is a plus for attackers. Let's think about it. Everyone has max science. Attackers easily hit 3-4 rwpa. + 125% thief with Wts and decent tpa? Really? Good luck having any type of decent success against a sage.

3. + Wiz production for + rune production. Like I said above 3-4 rwpa on attackers with magic shield and you want a tm to run 25% towers just to get by? Totally unfair.

4. Flat science numbers. Completely takes the fun out of being chained. Not to mention good luck trying to LL with everyone having max wiz sci and the nw diff. Add the rune scarcity and it's not even worth trying. Thanks for totally taking that aspect out of the game.

5. Science used to differentiate the skilled and experienced players from the mid tier and noobs. Nope not now. I'm sure everyone feels like a noob. Tms can't op and an attacker can't retain 500k offense after being chained to a pulp.

6. Oh, did I mention attackers can easily run 270 opa? Sry Tms, not only did we nerf your rune production and make it harder for you to op we threw you to the wolves.

7. The list goes on. I won't bore everyone nit picking.

I feel bad for tms. I feel bad for experienced players. I feel bad for monarchs trying to game plan.

If the current system stays in place I suggest the system be based per acre. It would allow players to be more tactical. I also suggest that we take away the caps. Allow scientist to go far beyond professor. For each rank make it twice the previous time to advance. All these changes would make holding onto your scientist all the more precious.

[Andurilas]

I don't know who this Iraze guy is, but I agree with pretty much everything he said.

[Wilmington]

Science was way too easy this age. I get that you want everyone to have the opportunity to max it, and that's great, but you need to work for it. My solution would be to add another tier that takes a real long time keeping the max as it is. Novice would be 1/4, Graduate half, Professor 3/4 at same times as now and add another tier for full strength that takes like 168+ hours.

I have over 200 and only 20 or so were from abduct, with no labs. I'd say lower the auto rate and increase labs to 4 or 5. I'd also remove BE from affecting labs to keep Dwarf Sages like myself from taking too much advantage of that and to help ppl without a lot of tools. I did that 1 war as soon as they started the 16hr attack times and we knew it was min time. I banked.

[Krozair]

Ok thinking REALLY left of centre here....

All races can ONLY produce the scientist associated with their race.

Each race starts off with 3 scientists of their particular race (No scientist can be reassigned)... they get one new scientist every Utopian Year (Randomly through the year - within the first 96 hours of the year) - as most ages last between 12-14 years this means between 15- 17 scientists if you do nothing BUT they would only be in one category for their race...

Avians Alchemy
Dwarves Tools
Elves Channeling
Faery Channeling
Halflings Crime & Deceit
Humans Food
Orcs Housing
Undead Military


You can ONLY get scientists of other types by one of two means

Attackers can LEARN
TM's can propaganda scientists

Elves, Faery and Halflings can all prop - AND the Learn attack while open to them is % wise less effective

AFTER science reaches 60% the law of diminishing returns will kick in - it will take more scientists to reach 100% of science ability in each category

Now I will NOT point out any negatives this game has more than enough people to do that for me...

BUT - the positives are that it will force people to attack to gain scientists - it will force TM's to Prop to gain scientists...this means more activity. It will lead to some very bizarre wars and hitting for science. After all you may hit an Avian for Achemy - however, if the Avian has hit elsewhere you may get not only Alchemy but scientists from other disciplines as well.

Means that the more active you are the more chance you will increase your science... at the very least it will mix things up

[Jobolob]

The old science system is way better. This system we have now is maybe the worst thing that could have happened to this game. Let's lay out some major problems..

1. Science, for everyone, maxed mid age. BORING. No skill required. May as well not have a system in place.

2. + magic and + thief is no longer a plus for Tms. It is a plus for attackers. Let's think about it. Everyone has max science. Attackers easily hit 3-4 rwpa. + 125% thief with Wts and decent tpa? Really? Good luck having any type of decent success against a sage.

3. + Wiz production for + rune production. Like I said above 3-4 rwpa on attackers with magic shield and you want a tm to run 25% towers just to get by? Totally unfair.

4. Flat science numbers. Completely takes the fun out of being chained. Not to mention good luck trying to LL with everyone having max wiz sci and the nw diff. Add the rune scarcity and it's not even worth trying. Thanks for totally taking that aspect out of the game.

5. Science used to differentiate the skilled and experienced players from the mid tier and noobs. Nope not now. I'm sure everyone feels like a noob. Tms can't op and an attacker can't retain 500k offense after being chained to a pulp.

6. Oh, did I mention attackers can easily run 270 opa? Sry Tms, not only did we nerf your rune production and make it harder for you to op we threw you to the wolves.

7. The list goes on. I won't bore everyone nit picking.

I feel bad for tms. I feel bad for experienced players. I feel bad for monarchs trying to game plan.

If the current system stays in place I suggest the system be based per acre. It would allow players to be more tactical. I also suggest that we take away the caps. Allow scientist to go far beyond professor. For each rank make it twice the previous time to advance. All these changes would make holding onto your scientist all the more precious.

THIS
Balance the game for gods sake or you'll end up losing more players.
Playing Faery or Elf this age has been absolutely horrible. Got max science by year 4 without doing a single thing and then have been bored ever since. Having to run ridiculous raw wpa to even have a chance on sucess as all core has 4-5 raw wpa + max science. As iraze already stated being EASILY breakable by core provinces that have obscene opa and ability to defend against ops.

Channeling science must go back to rune production and some serious balance tweaks to sort it out.

[Krozair]

I agree with Jobo's comments as well as Irazes post..... :)

[Danjor]

I personally want to see the # to max be at least 80-100 per category. This would make it very difficult, even on the current spawn rate for many to achieve max science. This would also allow for prop to capture scientists, as each would be less valuable and it wouldn't break the game for T/Ms or attackers with regard to science (as it is now favoring attackers). I like the idea of diminishing returns for each scientist gained after say 50% of the total effect, this way hardcore players would be rewarded for focusing on abducts/props (30 scientists would get you 50% max effect, 60 for 75% and 90 for 100%) and give sages an all around bonus making it so they only need 80 for max effect in each category instead of a sci defense,spawn , or greater max effect bonus. Having more scientists for max effect would also create a more varied landscape of provinces with regard to how they are choosing to allocate and benefit from their scientists. Choosing to specialize rather than diversify would mean something for the entire age, not just 3 weeks. Given my current numbers, after not doing anything to aid science all age I would have 2 fully maxed categories with 180 scientists (if my proposal was in action). I don't know what the goal is as far as how many categories should be able to be maxed, but something like that would be more intriguing than everyone maxing every category.

Lastly, I'd like to see the max effect bonuses go away for certain personalities. I think that given other race and personality bonuses, max sci bonuses are unnecessary, and make it harder to balance the game overall (I think the example of attackers with stupid OPA applies here as well)