Fix the end of war cf

[coss]

I have 3 suggestions to make game better in terms of wars and especially how to avoid the stupid CFs that now are made between kds:

1. Get end of war cf up to 5 days. 3 days is damn short right now, you can't do much with it ... you can't be as ready as these that wait to vulture you and cause of it taxing works as it does in top. You have no chance to defend yourself when going out of a war and everyone is more concerned of CF management(planning CFs) that warring. If a hostile+war go longer than expected you are f***ed.
2. Get all under median provs normal explore costs and not 5x bigger when in end of war CF. It allows quick rebuild for the chained provinces and makes a kd ready to fight after the end of war CF.
3. Automatically feel provinces with peasants to 80% of their max population when a war ends. Most of the time almost no one has peasants when a war ends but not all get the peasants bonus as they don't qualify for it. Most of the time many provinces in a kd have to release troops into peasants to be able to grow their population. This release+the short 3 days eowcf lead to a bad shape for the provinces when they exit CF.

Because of how the after war works now, usually all the kds get vultured. There is not enough time to be at least half ready for a wave OOW.

Also there are 2 more things I believe would work well in overall dynamics:

1. Give each province 1 or 2 acres each hour instead of 5 acres each utopian month. This will make game more dynamic and increase the available land inside the game.
2. Do not allow a province to explore to be bigger than 2x the median of the kd. If a province grows by attacking is a different story. This will also make warring easier and make kds engage more into warring and waving than just exploring few cows all age.

[Thunder TA]

sounds good

[Bishop]

Coss, whats wrong with vulturing? It used to be the norm so why must we ensure a war is isolated from consequences?

[Pillz]

Coss is missing his B2b2b fws.

[coss]

Coss, whats wrong with vulturing? It used to be the norm so why must we ensure a war is isolated from consequences?

Bishop is not about vulturing as much as all the CFs made to prevent it and all the deals that ruin the game. The way I see it, right now there are 2 problems that kind of push people to make these strange deals:

1. no time for preparation when getting out of a war
2. you get half kd chained and can't get it up for OOW

And if it was the norm when there were over 1k kds around ... don;t think it;s a good thing to be the normal right now when there are what ... 170 kds?

[Ragnarok]

I'm not seeing the huge difference between 3 days CF + 3 days Fort compared to 5 days CF. Yeah typically the first 24 hours of CF is just growing peons and switching builds, but typically by the end of the next 36 hours I'm able to get my TPA and defense were I want them, and use the 3 days Fort to train Offense. This also allows an hour or two between CF and Fort for those who got chained really bad to explore.

With the current science system having a 5 day CF would allow for some major pumping of science and still allow for a 3 day fort after the fact. With the 3 day CF + 3 day fort, after 6 days from war end and kingdom has be unprotected for the cooldown. And i dont think that's a bad thing.

[Avenger]

I disagree about eowcf. 3+3 days is enough hand-holding as it is.

[Trimba]

Remove the eowcf. It does not add anything. And after ww2 we had no eowcf's so why now.

[jmiedema]

reason 3 day eowcf + 3 day fort is not the same as 5 day eowcf is because when people leave eowcf is precisely when a kd will get vultured. When they first go fort so have -50% gains hitting out, but still -0% gains hitting in. So the vulture kd hits for full value, and vultured kd can't retiate in kind. You can get around it by entering fort 1 day early while staying in eowcf, but then that is still not a 3+3, that is 3+2.

Also it seems kd's have a respect for not hitting into eowcf (generally?) but fort is fair game. So kd's need more time of high protection to grow provs and econ buildings before having to prepare to be vultured.

[Ragnarok]

I'm not sure about others, but I've rarely been vultured out of CF. Now, I exit every CF with 7 dspec, 3+ TPA and less than 1M GC.
That's normal enough to prevent most vulturing. And the only thing I need to fear is a TM which would probably be a good thing if I wasn't ready yet anyway.

[jmiedema]

I'm not sure about others, but I've rarely been vultured out of CF. Now, I exit every CF with 7 dspec, 3+ TPA and less than 1M GC.
That's normal enough to prevent most vulturing. And the only thing I need to fear is a TM which would probably be a good thing if I wasn't ready yet anyway.

That is not the vulturing that this thread is addressing. That is just stealing/robbing.

The vulturing we are talking about is, (usually near the top, cuz bottom ghetto play doesn't really do it, your right) Kingdom A has been out of war a while stacking gc/resources, see's kingdom B just finished their war, so they hop to fort for 72h (eowcf is also 72h) and kingdom A preps hard with their extra resources and no requirement to explore (and if they do need to explore, they do it at 1/5 the cost) and then when kingdom B comes out of EoWCF, they pounce on them and full wave them.

It isn't an issue at the bottom because generally kingdoms just wanting to war will talk to the other monarch and arrange it generally, but at the top where they want land, they can take 30%-50% of kingdom B's land just by relentlessly attacking them after an inferior amount of EoWCF time. This is (one of the reasons) why top kingdoms avoid war and just tax all the time, it is substantially easier to just manage CF's and avoid wars.

[steamrick]

I don't think there's a need for 5 days of EOWCF. I'd like to see two things changed:

1) Your peons get refilled to 80% max pop capacity immediately so hard-hit provinces don't sit around waiting to accumulate peons until they finally get a good income for the first day
2) When exiting EOWCF into Fort, you get max Fort bonuses from the get-go, greatly reducing gains for vultures

That should be enough to make warring KD's lives much easier.

[Bart of Sparta]

I 100% agree that EOW CF needs to be buffed, and bank building needs to be nerfed. The entire CFing landscape is just there because people need time to launch banks --> longer CFs etc etc. This median thingy might be tricky though, because it means that KDs who are lucky to have that 13th prov not chained, will have significant advantages over a KD that has say 12 provs above 8K, then the 13th under 3K. Perhaps we can take the average between median and average province size *2 ?

[Goodwitch]

I think 3 days eowcf is plenty if the cool down for fort is fixed.

the pop fill up would be lovely
and please remove all negative effects upon entering eowcf :) nothing worse than using all your mana and still having the plague or getting stuck with ms/greed/riots from a last ditch honor run before end of war.

[Bayhuy]

You can make EowCF 4 days again like before. Yeah 3 days are not enough and some kingdoms may wait for you and wave you unprepared. 3 days fort don`t help much after that

And some other suggestions
1)forbid outside hits in wars
2)make 2 kind ingame CFs . blank CF and CF whit exactly date. IF someone decide to broke that CF to have - 75% gains in first 48 hours. SO the other kingdom will have good chance to fight back even if unprepared

Force kingdoms to war instead to whore and whit 1 war to win land crowns. We need to keep all kingdoms in almost same land range so we will see a lot intresting fights:
1)Fill all kingdoms till 25 before create new kingdoms. or reduce all kingdoms till 23 provinces
2)Stop explore pool to give you land any hour. only wars to give you explore pool. Like 5k acres for the winner and 2k acres for loser or something like that or % from their land. SO kingdoms can explore their chained provinces.
3)reduce scientists birth significant. if no labs or reveletion to gain max 40-50 scientists per age. Wars to give like 10 scientists to winner and 3 scentists to these who lose.
4)return back the old stance system. you can enter faster wars whit it.