Dwarf (d)effeciency

[janat08]

You can't exactly go as mage or thief as dwarf since your efficiency applies only to other % building bonuses, anything like towers/homes/banks don't really care (% bonuses wise). If you want your efficiency good then you can't exactly draft 70% to be thief without building the corresponding farms/homes or as mage not without sinking towers on top of farms that you need along with guilds that don't at all care about your BE bonus while also being labor intensive.

[janat08]

http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...ighlight=dwarf

This has BE calculations that assume that homes and banks and stables and such will multiply value of BE, so: 50homes, 50tg, 120be= 180be or something.

[StratOcastle]

Dwarves are one of those races some players see as complicated, but I'm not one of them. Free build is addictive and can make you suffer withdrawals when you switch to something else. Consider yourself the neighbor with the pickup truck and a garage full of tools.

[Zauper]

Towers homes and banks all receive benefit from BE. The only piece of the three that doesn't is homes pop increase and jobs decrease. Towers rune production is. Banks % and flat are.

What exactly is your concern?

[StratOcastle]

Sometimes it's a matter of perspective. If you look at a build through another players eyes it can help.

I never run rogue and I'd never run dwarf rogue as a choice. Not that I couldn't see it happen, but I'm not a finesse player. Anyways, I got to adopt a marquis dwarf rogue. The former owner has been around for a while and his kingdom is usually in the honor crown race.

I'll tell you, it was quite a bit different than the pillboxes I usually run. Very polished build. Well thought out with that 2 stage dynamic indicative of a good player. Very effective, but my lack of familiarity with honor farming and full understanding of his build makes for awkward navigation going forward. Still, it's an experience that I value because it gets you out of the typical mindset that stagnates your evolution.

[Band of Horses]

TFW Zauper has to drop the truth on people

[StratOcastle]

We can be nice and try to help. People named Top Kingdom who run dwarves of reasonable competence could try to guide a frustrated player in the right direction. Everybody and his brother hate my builds and they apparently only work for me. That's why.

[chalsdk]

We can be nice and try to help. People named Top Kingdom who run dwarves of reasonable competence could try to guide a frustrated player in the right direction. Everybody and his brother hate my builds and they apparently only work for me. That's why.

I seen quite a few players this age say like that they are so sure that Dorf BE dont effect towers that they demand Evidence as they are brutal sure that it dont..

and once its proven they disbelive it outright..

Did BE from dorf not always effect towers?? I cant remeber a time it did not, and jet returnies claim it.. (what I presume i returnies)

[HerpNDerp]

It's my opinion that dorfs are very strong in war when one of the top 3-5 acres size in the kd. They can open up chains on high nw targets, and they can turtle their elites at home, which makes them pretty good at retaining honor over time. Now, you arent quite as good as an orc or undead attacker, but you have significantly more lasting power than they do. And you will never be able to stop rogues or mystics from opping you really, but what non-TM truly can? Your T/M defenses are superior to that of the orc/UD/avian, and can rob resources and dish out some damage yourself (especially if you get hit once or twice). The free build and accelerated build is nice, and you need to use it effectively to get the most out of the race.

[s0830887]

I seen quite a few players this age say like that they are so sure that Dorf BE dont effect towers that they demand Evidence as they are brutal sure that it dont..

and once its proven they disbelive it outright..

Did BE from dorf not always effect towers?? I cant remeber a time it did not, and jet returnies claim it.. (what I presume i returnies)

Dwarf BE 100% affects towers.

OP - the main hinderance to going thief or mage isn't race so much as it is personality. The only personalities with legitimately useful offensive spells are Heretic, Mystic, and Rogue. Dwarf can play all three. All three rely on efficiency buildings to see them through; Heretics need towers, guilds, and wts or tds; mystics rely on towers, guilds, and wts; and rogues rely on towers, guilds, and tds. BE is super important for all three (particularly the latter), and dwarf benefits from that.

Dwarf isn't necessarily an awesome combination with a t/m personality, but it's not terrible - you could do worse. If you're putting one of the t/m pers on a non-traditional t/m race (the big three of halfer, elf, faery) then you are already making compromises with one aspect of the game to presumably try to take tactical advantage of another area of the game. So you don't need to get exceptionally hung up on anything else.

(Did I actually answer the point you made? I think I went on a tangent there, I'm sorry)

[Goodwitch]

Thinking this should go into strategy?

[StratOcastle]

Maybe, but I'm thinking this is a philosophy thing. How do you approach dwarf?
I run anything and have zero numerical research involved. I look at the race changes and TA-DA!

[natebane]

Maybe, but I'm thinking this is a philosophy thing. How do you approach dwarf?
I run anything and have zero numerical research involved. I look at the race changes and TA-DA!

Intuitively, or more in depth:

As a warring player I like to view the race/pers details from the perspective of my troop line standing on a battlefield staring down an opposing enemy line. With this mindset and my affinity for roman history I envision building a 'triple line', so firstly TMs can fulfill the role of archers/artillery, then the triarii as the last line of troop defense, and in front of them the main two ranks of infantry. I envision dwarves as falling into that 'triarii' category, where they do great when backed up with a strong front line, so something like this age, not exactly, but I wanted to go:

3 halfer rogues
2 faery rogues
3 faery mystics
5 dwarf sages
10 orc warriors

Magery was obviously going to be annoying with attacker cores naturally accumulating 125% more wizards, so more rogues for AW to push through any necessary damage. But anyway the approach is that CS was pretty key this age alongside sage TM defenses to the point where you're forcing them to deal with you in the way they didn't want to deal with you, which was chaining into higher defenses while there were a line of orcs waiting to chain/break stuff.

A lot of setups are 'here's 17 dudes with really high offense and 6 TMs', numbers are arbitrary, but the dwarves and combos of similar use make for a smoother transition between heavy attacker and TMs. Since heavy attackers tend to be lighter on defense and the natural progression of war will make those defenses even less significant, the dwarves offense in relation to heavy attacker defense is all that matters at or after min-time. They can use all their generals just the same as their orc counterparts, while they serve as that last line of defense for their TMs by breaking the enemy's chaining momentum. The enemy has to use up more offense to chain the dwarf down which in turn means they have to spend more time eating enemy TM ops. If you haven't been on the receiving end of organized rogues, it really doesnt matter how many WT you have, it can be fairly demoralizing.

Summary: For me they're a forced speed bump without sacrificing too much early war offense.

For next age i could see a case for a setup involving a handful of dwarf tacticians. Get your CS protection, run full elite, high barracks, and make your hits in between enemy waves.

[StratOcastle]

I can dig that. I tend to envision the tactics in mechanized sweep coordinates.

Heretic can be seen as an A-10 or a chopper depending on race. I think elf heretic will be the A-10 this age.
This is probably why ilike blended cores.

I don't get to play the way I can but do enjoy the freedom in the bowels of the Utopian rankings.

[Wolfric]

For next age i could see a case for a setup involving a handful of dwarf tacticians. Get your CS protection, run full elite, high barracks, and make your hits in between enemy waves.

That makes a lot of sense, I was really annoyed by the new lower offence of the elites and the loss of CS which is huge, they got left with mystic aura which is of no help/defence at all when compared to other race spells. I was struggling to see a compatible personality but the -20% Attack Time of tactician means you could get away without any barracks and still have decent attack times.

But they are still at a disadvantage from a spell book perspective when compared to other attacker races.