Proposed plague balance

[Sheister]

Now that we have new owners, I think it is a good time to propose a rebalancing of plague.

Most uses of plague for strategy reasons include opening targets, increased economy control and the like. At the moment, plague has an indefinite duration and, while curable at a relatively low percentage with Nature's Blessing, that is overpowered.

Plague, at its most basic, is a combination of Chastity, Incite Riots, and a targeted mystic vortex of Minor Protection +Greater Protection (with duration). I have personally had the effect last as long as 24 hrs. I have also cured it instantly on a first cast of nature's blessing. Similarly, I have had perfect Mystic Vortex's that remove only negative spells on a single cast, thus I do not find the Nature's Blessing cures it argument persuasive in terms of balance.

Chastity has a duration max of what I assume to be 7 hours (because with maximum bonuses, that is the longest I have ever seen)
Incite Riots has a duration max of what I assume to be 24 hours (because with maximum bonuses that is the longest I have ever seen)

Taking these in average, the duration should be about 16 hours.


This timing is appealing because that would mean that a plague duration limited to 16 hours would renew upon the next wave of an undead's attack patter. Thus allowing constant plague with renewed cyclical attacks under the normal stance assuming no other speed modifiers.

This is essence is what I propose to balance plague. That plague's maximum duration should be set to 16 ticks. I think plague should further appear as a spell effect in the mystic adviser with a definite counter. Yes, that also means that plague should have a random chance of being "cured" by a mystic vortex in addition to nature's blessing. (I do not find that illogical as plague is a mystic disease nor do I find it unbalanced as few would choose to use mystic vortex to cure when nature's blessing is both cheaper and more targeted, thus this minor change really is just for ease of display and coding of the proposed balance of the plague effect).

Given the natural bounds of the durations of the effects that plague mimics, its current form is overly powerful for a free incidental effect related to an attack, it seems reasonable to provide a definite and averaged duration for the effects that would be in keeping with the attacking cycle and not cause significant deviation from the strategic purposes of plague as currently used in the game.

Thank you for your attention.

[Pillz]

Now that we have new owners, I think it is a good time to propose a rebalancing of plague.

Most uses of plague for strategy reasons include opening targets, increased economy control and the like. At the moment, plague has an indefinite duration and, while curable at a relatively low percentage with Nature's Blessing, that is overpowered.

Plague, at its most basic, is a combination of Chastity, Incite Riots, and a targeted mystic vortex of Minor Protection +Greater Protection (with duration). I have personally had the effect last as long as 24 hrs. I have also cured it instantly on a first cast of nature's blessing. Similarly, I have had perfect Mystic Vortex's that remove only negative spells on a single cast, thus I do not find the Nature's Blessing cures it argument persuasive in terms of balance.

Chastity has a duration max of what I assume to be 7 hours (because with maximum bonuses, that is the longest I have ever seen)
Incite Riots has a duration max of what I assume to be 24 hours (because with maximum bonuses that is the longest I have ever seen)

Taking these in average, the duration should be about 16 hours.


This timing is appealing because that would mean that a plague duration limited to 16 hours would renew upon the next wave of an undead's attack patter. Thus allowing constant plague with renewed cyclical attacks under the normal stance assuming no other speed modifiers.

This is essence is what I propose to balance plague. That plague's maximum duration should be set to 16 ticks. I think plague should further appear as a spell effect in the mystic adviser with a definite counter. Yes, that also means that plague should have a random chance of being "cured" by a mystic vortex in addition to nature's blessing. (I do not find that illogical as plague is a mystic disease nor do I find it unbalanced as few would choose to use mystic vortex to cure when nature's blessing is both cheaper and more targeted, thus this minor change really is just for ease of display and coding of the proposed balance of the plague effect).

Given the natural bounds of the durations of the effects that plague mimics, its current form is overly powerful for a free incidental effect related to an attack, it seems reasonable to provide a definite and averaged duration for the effects that would be in keeping with the attacking cycle and not cause significant deviation from the strategic purposes of plague as currently used in the game.

Thank you for your attention.

I disagree with the MV thing but agree otherwise. I if duration is being capped at 16h I don't think k there needs to be another way to remove it added.

[BoBDuDe]

I think that if you were to make it a spell, it would have to be a self spell as to not be able to blanket the other KD.

Single Use (Offensive) - Our next attack will infect our target with the plague (-10% gains)
OR
Single Use (Defensive) - Our D Specs are carrying the plague and wil spread it next time we are attacked (Plague duration: [# of units sent / # of Dspecs] * Base plague time)

If you want to make it a double edged sword maybe as a sabotage op available only to UD (Rogue needed to use it)
Durational - We have released the plague in PROV (KD) and they will suffer (plague effects) (Short Duration: e.g. CH)

Along with this/these, I would suggest that the % that your hospitals/NB (While active) have to cure plague, have that % of not being infected in the first place. (Stackable)

[feast]

So is the daily % chance known?

Are hospitals additive or mutlapliitive to that daily chance?

If it's let's say 5% daily and with 20% chance mutiplied isn't but 6%. If additive then it's fine.

I'm not opposed to 16hr max plague, but definitely don't like it being able to be mved. It's nice we won't have at eowcf anymore.

If it is lowered to 16hr max then I would prefer the contagious aspect of it to increase for ud and people who already have it.

[Goodwitch]

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that plague is a "mystic" disease ? All for a time cap but the mystic vortex shouldn't cure it imo.

[Nanka]

Lower odds would be nice, multi tapping more or less guarantees an infection.

[ondz18]

is the plague harder to cure last age (Age 70)?

[Ovenmitt]

I think plague should be defensive only, and slow returning armies by 2 or 3 hours a la the old fog mechanic and none of the stuff it does now. Balances ud's defensive weakness and doesnt break the game, say its 15-20% catch chance, same as now.

[natebane]

It's removed automatically after war now, so I think plague should be stronger if anything. I think it's already a max duration of 24 hrs, so if we lower it then we need to get rid NB being able to remove it or no more immunity from it on a personality.

[Pillz]

I think plague should be defensive only, and slow returning armies by 2 or 3 hours a la the old fog mechanic and none of the stuff it does now. Balances ud's defensive weakness and doesnt break the game, say its 15-20% catch chance, same as now.

They wouldn't **** with attack times tho.

@ natebane the eowcf removing Plague thing only weakens it for the very few kds that b2b

[BoBDuDe]

I think in this case, the attack time variable shouldnt be a problem.

The issue with fog affecting your attack times was that it depended on if the province you were attacking had it up or not.
The attack time you were given was changed by a mechanic on the other province that was not known to you.

Now, if plague affected attack times only if you are attacking an UD, a prov with the plague, or if you have the plague already, that can be taken into attack time variables before your attack with a known longer attack time beforehand.

[Pillz]

I think in this case, the attack time variable shouldnt be a problem.

The issue with fog affecting your attack times was that it depended on if the province you were attacking had it up or not.
The attack time you were given was changed by a mechanic on the other province that was not known to you.

Now, if plague affected attack times only if you are attacking an UD, a prov with the plague, or if you have the plague already, that can be taken into attack time variables before your attack with a known longer attack time beforehand.

Sure. But there is a random factor to it which means you can't really accurately predict whether your army will be delayed or not. You can just assume it will be. So it is no different then hitting a Dwarf with fog and not knowing if it's up or not.

And you'd basically be giving ud fog that is always active with that proposal...

[Ovenmitt]

Sure. But there is a random factor to it which means you can't really accurately predict whether your army will be delayed or not. You can just assume it will be. So it is no different then hitting a Dwarf with fog and not knowing if it's up or not.

And you'd basically be giving ud fog that is always active with that proposal...

Plague would no longer be something that stuck, rather something that affected an army coming home. 20% chance of it taking 2-3 hours longer. Thats it, pretty simple.

[BoBDuDe]

Ya see that chance part of what you are talking about is what they are going to decline over.

But if it added a permafog or just acted as such (which I doubt) yes, there would be a "slight" element of chance that the target you are about to hit (non-UD) will get the plague between the time that you get an Sot, and the time that you send your attack.
But in all likelihood, your kd would be the ones giving them the plague and you would still know about it in that instance I would assume.

And the matter of UD always having, and when you have it, it would just be a given time adjustment so in those instance the chance variable is taken completely off the table.

[Ovenmitt]

The fact that its variable and a chance is the entire point of plague