Hey!
I see that UD is a popular race this age. I understand that they are different and can be fun to play around with, but im surprised how many people choose them.
If you have chosen UD for optimization;
It would be interesting to know from your POV why you have chosen UD if you would like to share it.
No bashing, only discussion please :-)
They gave Pandora a box. Prometheus begged her not to open it. She opened it. Every evil to which human flesh is heir came out of it.
The last thing to come out of the box was HOPE.... It flew away.
Pandora's Box aka PB
We ended up not using any undeads and went for a different style altogether, but this build was a consideration:
TMs
1 fae heretic
2 elf mystic
2 halfer rogue
Attackers/ats
3 dwarf rogue
3 halfer rogue
6 avian cleric
6 undead tactician
Orc getting more 'squishy' and undead getting an increase in sustain power I think definitely skewed some numbers. Mixing that permanent animate dead to feed avians for elite credits was the concept above since cleric works well with undead and they get animate dead too. That science gap will hurt later on, but as a high offense role Avian and Undead are better choices. Undead can razebounce easier and that plague deterrent from TMs spare razing you is nice. At 50/50 conversion you're at the same offense as full elite orc last age and 66% is the same as orc this age, so those arent terrible to achieve and I think is less painful than being hit army home with those 1000gc orc leets at increased casualties. Avians have some really nice bonuses too comparatively and as clerics make sense if you're expecting a lot of undeads so you can get the most out of those birthrates during war. Humans main bonus gets negated in war with easier fireballs so as a turtle attacker is less appealing. We ran halflings as warriors a coupe ages ago and those were a blast, but maybe stereotype kept them from being viewed in that light this age from others again too. I can't speak entirely for other kingdoms strategies, but I can definitely see why they were a strong pick this age.
The reason my kd debated choosing undead because it mathematically worked out to have some of the best numbers, survives chains well and has offensive sustain when chained. The only race that seemed comparable was Avain, but avains burn out leadership. Its to much attacking to often for me to run alone even on a weekend and i dont want a setup that requires 100% we cant war unless 3-4 leaders are available.Originally Posted by Pak
The only age when und wasn't popular was when it had -1 gen. Every other age is among the most picked races.
Undead are a solid pick always for their Plague and foodless stats ... chuck in some Watchtowers and players have a strong heavy attacker or attacker mage province...
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Why would avian burn you out? AV/CL w/o rax would still be 2 hits/day.
If ever there was a reason to play avian it would be this age.
-35% sci on UD is a massive nerf which becomes more and more visible as the age progresses.
It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.
Avain cleric in war has a 8.4 hour attack time since they lowered base attack time to 12 hours in war. 8.4 hour attack time +1 hour wave 30 min to plan each wave means leaders have to run a wave, 7 hours later start planing/running a wave. Thats if only avains are hitting, and everyone is in sync. if kd hits are 11am-12pm(lunch time), 7:30pm-8:30pm, 4am-5am, that means a key wave is in the middle of the night for usa. If you try to shift it so theres no middle of the night hits then a wave occurs right in the middle of the work day.
If/when people start+- hours and u have say a few humans mixed in you litterally can end up with people attacking almost constantly by day 2
I ran undead Tacts as a kingdom setup last age. We started the age out great going 4/4 but during our war with divinity I got sick plus burned out. Running three waves a day plus insuring wages ect really takes a toll on a kingdom. Same with my guys running the undead tacts, they started missing ticks, losing horses, getting hit home ect. I definitely wouldn't suggest avian as a setup, but that's just me. ;)
Could someone be a doll and post the race/pers breakdown? I don't have a prov and I'm curious how people played.
Avian DwarfElf Faery HalflingHuman Orc Undead Total
Cleric 512 33 9 1 17 10 92 3 677
Heretic 10 26 173 59 22 5 1 5 301
Mystic 0 7 171 101 66 1 1 3 350
Rogue 24 42 17 32 407 6 1 30 559
Sage 9 48 20 3 20 10 0 1 111
Tactician 118 32 13 0 0 18 25 105 311
War hero 71 51 5 2 50 20 51 356 606
Warrior 95 4 0 1 1 7 37 116 261
Total 839 243 408 199 583 77 208 619 3176
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Persain covered the main advantage vs. avian. >95% of KDs simply can't run it well. Period. Those setups are paper tigers waiting to implode, unless you have a 24/7 dedicated LS.
Ud has a nice mix of sustain and retrain with free elite conversion with ospec creds and auto AD. Orc has the better off and gains but it's counterbalanced by greater losses and worse sustain, so I consider them to have parity. If attacker eco mattered all that much, human would be nice, but it doesn't move the needle much in warring tier. The -35% sci will hurt but it's somewhat mitigated by new age changes. Better warring KDs may go orc/cleric for late-game play
Skimming new age changes, I think one undervalued change for Ud is auto-AD. That's a big deal given that a big difference in previous ages vs. orc is ud capacity to provide soldiers. I see potential Dwarf/Tact or WH quick feeding strategies open up that were only viable with orc
Last edited by Nightmare_; 12-03-2017 at 16:38.
Auto animate dead is extremely powerful. I don't think anyone could undervalue it.
I agree with you, but no one seems to be talking about it - not even in the feedback thread of age changes. It's pretty significant.
I'm a bit unclear why the leadership of a kingdom needs to be micro-planning each and every hit. You've got 20+ people, why not spread some decision making out? Establish goals, and trust your players to do the little things like lapping an army on the chain target.
I suppose if the kingdom is so good every hit needs to be in order for gains, all in the same hour... but does that even really help? A decent initial smash and letting the defense desert would actually help put them in better range of the chained/smalls anyway, as well as not requiring so much offense.
Spreading it out does mean you need almost 24/7 coverage by leadership, but when their job is to tell you what to try and do, and your job is to figure out how best to do it... that's a lot less intensive.
I also think UD numbers are gonna be kinda junk. Even when chained to pure elites, they only get as strong as the Avians anyway, and no gains/speed benefit like Orc or Avian. While all the NB is annoying (unless cleric), the extra incoming makes me suspect I'll be much more chain resistant as well as more damaging to the enemy.
it's vs. its is ambiguous - from now on I'm attempting to use the proper possessive it's, and the contraction 'tis. (Its will just be the plural.)
Think Different
you dont have to micro every hit, but know when to change wave targets to organizing nm waves/ops targets the overall war plan has to be centralized to the leaders and planed out or your going to lose to kds who do that. Theres a big differnce between trusting your players to build correctly,log-in for hits, attack spare off targets, and "we chain x y and z ...see u in 8 hours"
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