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Thread: Sooo many Undeads - Discussion

  1. #31
    Post Fiend Pak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StratOcastle View Post
    You have to have the players that want and can play avian. These are hard to come by.
    Agreed.

    However most of the later posts have been about avian. I understand people choosing avians, they have good strenghts. UD is kinda meh imo.


    Anyways, thanks for the response. Was good to get some other peoples view.
    They gave Pandora a box. Prometheus begged her not to open it. She opened it. Every evil to which human flesh is heir came out of it.
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  2. #32
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    The one thing that undead and orcs both suffer is they appear to be aid sinks, IMHO.

    I've been looking at undead sage the way I look at orc cleric. They both may reach that positive tipping point despite still being in the red with their weaknesses.
    I know Avenger shot down the idea(undead sage) but I respectively brush off top player opinion when I know that such builds present the breaking threat required to oppose bottom feeding/acre searching.

    The world is a lot easier for bottom feeding with a bunch of -10 gains non-warrior core(avians). No offense to the new owners, but this is what I was referring to as the top feeder strats being frail and somewhat brittle. Any war strat(avians) in your range will skin you alive if you're fielding the type of attackers required to hit out of their range and remain viable vs top kingdom counter measures. Orcs will crumble, because you can't fix the resource loss penalty. Most other undead combinations will be so far behind in science they can't resist ops/sabotage. Undead sage offers a possible solution.

    The age has begun and people who think about this stuff have to wait till next age to warn the victims that'll pile up in the complaint threads. Don't fret tops, I'm just an avian cleric.

    Edit, elaborating: undead sage can concentrate on conversions. Now I should say, about every undead attacker and his brother is converting, but the sage is scientifically viable now.

    I'm not being critical to say the current set up favors top kingdoms to still take sage in certain areas, though I could see a dark horse strat with war hero core. I'm not saying that naively; if you can establish position and farm honor it might make your sage competitors nervous. Consider dwarf war hero grabbing acres via WS and building at zero cost out of war. 6 ticks. But I digress.

    Undead sage is no avian cleric but it doesn't take the losses orcs will and it draws the line a little closer to top level ability. They can reach into top cores unlike avian and can absorb more punishment than orcs.
    Last edited by StratOcastle; 14-03-2017 at 16:57.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
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  3. #33
    Enthusiast Zombies are people too's Avatar
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    Undead Sage? Naw xD

    Srsly, 25% sci increase is all that goes for this persona; more procs is still govern by rngesus, protection from abducts? Irrelevant in war. Amnesia? right..... xD So back to 25% sci effect; you're still -10% across the board. You'd seriously give up +10%OME and a general for that? Decreased attack times and 0 thief losses AND CS for that? Access to PF, Fanta and +5% gains for that? Heck, I'd laugh less at an UD/Cleric combo this age than an UD/Sage. Sorry Strato, your pseudo-strat is too much this time.

    -DM <3
    Last edited by Zombies are people too; 24-03-2017 at 23:37. Reason: Typo Queen! xD

  4. #34
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies are people too View Post
    Sorry Strato, your pseudo-strat is too much this time.

    -DM <3
    He prefers to play the underdog - last age I think he was playing human/cleric when everyone else was playing sage. Sage for this age got huge and unnecessary nerfs imo.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombies are people too View Post
    Undead Sage? Naw xD

    Srsly, 25% sci increase is all that goes for this persona; more procs is still govern by rngesus, protection from abducts? Irrelevant in war. Amnesia? right..... xD So back to 25% sci effect; you're still -10% across the board. You'd seriously give up +10%OME and a general for that? Decreased attack times and 0 thief losses AND CS for that? Access to PF, Fanta and +5% gains for that? Heck, I'd laugh less at an UD/Cleric combo this age than an UD/Sage. Sorry Strato, your pseudo-strat is too much this time.

    -DM <3
    your king or queen must be happy with you, nice analysis.

    don't worry undeads won't have this science penalty forever like no food.

  6. #36
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    I hate our undeads. But after a no-sleep avian age last age, we just couldn't face it again.
    Josh; leader of a lovable band of misfits, Pinoys, and probable virgins.

    My Raging Clue

    *If a Utopian falls in the woods, and no-one is around to see him...was he still bottom-feeding?

  7. #37
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    Things always look worse than they are. I'm saying undead is generally a stand alone race anyways. When I ran undead sage vs undead warrior, whatever, there were no significant difficulties.

    Basically, if you face a good kingdom that -35% will bite you and drawing that down to -10% gets you in the game. Is there better stuff? Better depends. Avian is very heavy this age, but still has the -10% gains to deal with. When I say heavy I mean it's damn good, but it doesn't do everything.

    I like to think in terms of what I do in and out of war. Orcs are glass canons in forum/numerical assessment, but in practice handle their job admirably. Where I'm different from the guy in forum that contends a particular build is garbage is that I will build one and see. The fact is that about any build run well will perform well. I'm not saying our forumites can't play crap-strats but that they don't. Thus, projected ability is based in what they see in numerical projection not actual play.

    I ran an orc mystic the last 3rd of age 70 and it was every bit the attacker one would want. When chained my wpa offered me the ability to cast meteors. That was countered by massacre which gave me the opportunity to grow and my elites were still there.

    To point, my biggest problem with undead would be population control at the limit. If I can erase 25% of that deficit I think I'm doing pretty well. My second problem with undead would be susceptibility to abduction to further mar poor homes science. Again, sage addresses this issue. My third problem is acquiring scientists over taking acres and converting elites. This to is addressed by sage. Sage answers most all my concerns with undead. The one exception is a personal one in that I don't attack unprovoked.

    Off topic, but what really makes avian cleric tough is counter intuitive. Avian cleric, army home, and reliable land fat, can camp. This has always been an ability, but with so many new avian players I think it should be mentioned. This ability to force lower tap counts from your enemies can outweigh your offensive requirements if you're a core killer. This is particularly effective in long wars when runes are short and wave times convoluted. You need to be aware of your environment, but that's easily done now with munkbot for the uninitiated. Old dogs can gather that intel just doing the routine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
    ________
    Weed bowls

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...+say&FORM=VDRE

  8. #38
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    Let's be honest. Strat plays to get the most fun out of this game through experimentation. His knowledge and experience allows him to run the crazy mixes because he has the ability.


    Quite frankly though. Most kds would rather choose race/personality combo that build on strength as opposed to try and make up for a weakness and for good reason.

    It works.

    That said when a ud is chained to the point where they have to chose between keeping leets for nw or specs for conversions, they become about as weak as any other chained r/p.

    So just chain deep.
    Monarch Bad JuJu age 68

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  9. #39
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    Build on strenght.

    Like Avian/Cleric right. I think this is a surprising choice really. I'm surprised there are 15% avian clerics. Must be because intra kingdom communication. Lose 33% less elites, train new elites.

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