Vision for the Game

[Luigio]

I think we need to give them time. You cant change everything in that game without testing it. I agree that having 3 race/perso combo for mmore then half the player base is a disapointment tho. I would like to see more variety, I like the idea of dwarf/wh for exemple. I picked avian/cleric myself so I cant judge others for their "lack" of imaginations. :P

Also, looking foward to see some balance in science soon. Since it was changed from books, it is a mess. I like that it is back to degressing buff and at least we wont cap out in 6 weeks.

[StratOcastle]

I just hope we get more players. It would be great to get up over 10k players again.

Yes, I hope so.

Many of the choices are between overall efficiency and focal capability. The majority of the server are war or casual kingdoms. In my experience these traits are valued differently; more active kingdoms trend toward overall efficiency.

[Nightmare_]

Listen to the podcast!

If it's there I guess I have to. :p A written manifesto in the game announcements section would be nice. A brand vision, objectives, scope etc. Your community is your brand champion. I personally can't advocate for uto and make suggestions that the devs care about unless I know where the game's going

Are you finally gonna be active nm? :P

Activity is subjective... ;p

Nowhere in the podcast did they say that "having only 3 race/personality combos over 200 provinces" was their vision for the game. We've seen tweaks and changes before leaving some combos better than others, but I can't remember the last time that only 3 combos made up almost half the player base. This metamorphosis is very underwhelming so far, though I at least trust Dave and Jeff to figure it out down the line. Just, right now, yikes.

I think it's too early to give strong criticism. The game has always had 2-3 [seemingly] strong combos every age and a strong ud following. Mix the two together and most of the server picks Ud. If anything, I think there needs to be core mechanics/interface changes that allow for more diversity without introducing too much complexity, while also reducing logistical burdens. Changing the races won't solve much.

For example 8h attack times are completely non-viable for almost all kds if they want to remain competitive, making combos like hu/tact and av/ inherently unwieldly. This is partly because of the sheer difficulty in coordinating attacks [along with the oops errors and slow pace of waves]. But then again, for the KDs that can manage it flawlessly, they are either 1. whoring or 2. bored as **** because no one will war them

Another example is the rather static meta in the warring tier. UBs always win. Good setups are created around creating UBs. CQ, which is supposed to be a way to combat UBs and OOR provs, sucks

Find me on irc <3

OK <3

[JeffT]

There are currently 3200 players and 64 available combinations of races and personalities (8 of each). If everything were perfectly balanced and there were no player preference concerns, I suppose we'd expect to see 400 of each race and 400 of each personality, or 50 of each race+personality combination.

We currently have 4 races at or above 400 provinces, and 3 personalities. We have another 3 personalities over 300 provinces (~10% of players), and warrior is close -- really the only underrepresented personality is sage. Similarly, human is really the only race that concerns me, from a 'amount played' perspective. But human, dwarf, and sage all suffer from the same issue -- they're not exciting. They're strong, but they're not exciting.

Frankly, if everything were perfectly balanced, you might hope to have 0 race+personality combos over 200, so I don't view having 3 over 200 as a failing because there should be more. A lot of what people play is driven by either personal preference (e.g. in spite of Avian's popularity, there are plenty of players who refuse to play them because they require more activity), or thematic desire (e.g. there are a lot of people who will play undead regardless of whether they are technically strong or weak). Claiming out of hand that elf (and heretic/mystic), for example, isn't viable as Verminator does in spite of having two combinations with ~175 players, over 400 total players, and those personalities each having over 300 seems off.


To answer Nightmare's question, in a nutshell -
From a gameplay perspective, we want to expand options and diversity of playstyle. We want to reduce the impact of safe provinces (whether those are 'cows', or just t/ms larger than core) and expand the capacity of hybrids. We want to make mobile gameplay easier and make it so that you could be competitive -- if somewhat disadvantaged -- on one login per day, instead of requiring constant logins.

[Pillz]

There are currently 3200 players and 64 available combinations of races and personalities (8 of each). If everything were perfectly balanced and there were no player preference concerns, I suppose we'd expect to see 400 of each race and 400 of each personality, or 50 of each race+personality combination.

We currently have 4 races at or above 400 provinces, and 3 personalities. We have another 3 personalities over 300 provinces (~10% of players), and warrior is close -- really the only underrepresented personality is sage. Similarly, human is really the only race that concerns me, from a 'amount played' perspective. But human, dwarf, and sage all suffer from the same issue -- they're not exciting. They're strong, but they're not exciting.

Frankly, if everything were perfectly balanced, you might hope to have 0 race+personality combos over 200, so I don't view having 3 over 200 as a failing because there should be more. A lot of what people play is driven by either personal preference (e.g. in spite of Avian's popularity, there are plenty of players who refuse to play them because they require more activity), or thematic desire (e.g. there are a lot of people who will play undead regardless of whether they are technically strong or weak). Claiming out of hand that elf (and heretic/mystic), for example, isn't viable as Verminator does in spite of having two combinations with ~175 players, over 400 total players, and those personalities each having over 300 seems off.


To answer Nightmare's question, in a nutshell -
From a gameplay perspective, we want to expand options and diversity of playstyle. We want to reduce the impact of safe provinces (whether those are 'cows', or just t/ms larger than core) and expand the capacity of hybrids. We want to make mobile gameplay easier and make it so that you could be competitive -- if somewhat disadvantaged -- on one login per day, instead of requiring constant logins.

As Utopia operates both in real time and on a tick basis, it strikes me as impossible thay anyone can be competitive on 1 login a day.

They would be default have fewer incoming units from training, make fewer attacks, be less capable of managing damage from attacks/ops/spells, etc.

People can already play with one login a day, but the structure of the game makes it impossible to "compete" with people who are more active than that.

I'm curious how you intend to address it.

[Nightmare_]

To answer Nightmare's question, in a nutshell -
From a gameplay perspective, we want to expand options and diversity of playstyle. We want to reduce the impact of safe provinces (whether those are 'cows', or just t/ms larger than core) and expand the capacity of hybrids. We want to make mobile gameplay easier and make it so that you could be competitive -- if somewhat disadvantaged -- on one login per day, instead of requiring constant logins.

Looking forward to seeing how the game changes under your leadership, o mighty overlord :)

[DavidC]

As Utopia operates both in real time and on a tick basis, it strikes me as impossible thay anyone can be competitive on 1 login a day.

They would be default have fewer incoming units from training, make fewer attacks, be less capable of managing damage from attacks/ops/spells, etc.

People can already play with one login a day, but the structure of the game makes it impossible to "compete" with people who are more active than that.

I'm curious how you intend to address it.

You are correct. The current structure of the game does not allow this. I'm sure you and many others want to understand how we will deal with this! :D You will all just have to stick around to find out!

[Verminator]

Claiming out of hand that elf (and heretic/mystic), for example, isn't viable as Verminator does in spite of having two combinations with ~175 players, over 400 total players, and those personalities each having over 300 seems off.

Yeah, I know, it's easy to use the "runner up" combos that are 4th and 5th on the list as an example, but you're just cherrypicking the best combo to prove your point with. Mostly everything past #4 and #5 is a steep drop off, something I think you have to acknowledge when discussing the viability of every possible combo. In the past, there have been upwards of 10 popular combos, maybe more, meaning combos with over 200 provinces using them. That number is halved and more this age, which is a step in the wrong direction IMO.

Of course I don't expect there to be perfect balance, but loading all the appeal into 3-5 combos is a failure of progress. I know you guys have got this overall and the game will be fantastic again, of that I have no doubt because I know you guys have the passion and the game sense, but if this is any indication, your race/personality balance direction (specifically) is going backwards.

[Pillz]

You are correct. The current structure of the game does not allow this. I'm sure you and many others want to understand how we will deal with this! :D You will all just have to stick around to find out!

I think maybe I will hate you?

[artist]

The main issue i have with the game right now is that its mostly rewarding for the whoring KD's, which are not a majority, but they control most of the game. Why is it that the whoring KD's can abuse/use the mechanics of the game to bottomfeed and get literally every age more honor than any warring KD (with a few very minor exceptions over the past ages). Why is honor even an option oow, there is nothing honorable about bottomfeeding, something obviously has to change either in gains or the honor system itself. The game needs to be less about the whoring tier getting advantages imo. We can pretty much freely wave any KD that is smaller and 99% of the time u wont even get a retal. How can a system like this be fun for 90% of the server?
Tms have also gotten weaker and weaker, im not saying that tms should be UB all the time, but u also cant have attackers be able to run 3rwpa 4rtpa and still be able to break tms easily.
And i agree on the balance, this age it is extreme.. basically 2 attacker races to choose from as the others have huge deficits. The same on tm combos. But im sure you guys will get better balance the next ages.

[sexual harassment panda]

The main issue i have with the game right now is that its mostly rewarding for the whoring KD's, which are not a majority, but they control most of the game. Why is it that the whoring KD's can abuse/use the mechanics of the game to bottomfeed and get literally every age more honor than any warring KD (with a few very minor exceptions over the past ages). Why is honor even an option oow, there is nothing honorable about bottomfeeding, something obviously has to change either in gains or the honor system itself. The game needs to be less about the whoring tier getting advantages imo. We can pretty much freely wave any KD that is smaller and 99% of the time u wont even get a retal. How can a system like this be fun for 90% of the server?
Tms have also gotten weaker and weaker, im not saying that tms should be UB all the time, but u also cant have attackers be able to run 3rwpa 4rtpa and still be able to break tms easily.
And i agree on the balance, this age it is extreme.. basically 2 attacker races to choose from as the others have huge deficits. The same on tm combos. But im sure you guys will get better balance the next ages.

OOW honor gains are an unfortunate necessity because honor whoring kds would just land drop to fight easier competition. Without giving them free land drops through oow honor it stops that problem.

It does open a new can of worms though where now honor is gated by land.

I hope the new ww bonus for honor is significant. That should give everyone the best of all worlds.

[Band of Horses]

OOW honor gains are an unfortunate necessity because honor whoring kds would just land drop to fight easier competition. Without giving them free land drops through oow honor it stops that problem.

It does open a new can of worms though where now honor is gated by land.

I hope the new ww bonus for honor is significant. That should give everyone the best of all worlds.

Didn't they make the war win bonus a singular one, non choice between honor and land?

[sexual harassment panda]

Didn't they make the war win bonus a singular one, non choice between honor and land?

I was talking about the honor part of the ww bonus. Should have been more specific.

[Band of Horses]

I was talking about the honor part of the ww bonus. Should have been more specific.

I see what you meant, misunderstanding on my end.

[maccar86]

They did find anomalies in the code which were overlooked for many many ages. This is a positive start.