100% Homes

[StratOcastle]

I'm sure along with the devs I was hoping we'd get undead players chasing the dragon: leading to whoring the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

I want more elites but I get more land and with more land I get more elites to get more land to...until....I'm now bouncing a cow to shrink his defense to get his land to get more elites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVYDnQwi3OQ

[yootohpeega]

At 40% pop, the moment you transition from homes to other buildings, you risk overpop. Would the procedure be: 1. Send out army 2. raze homes and build other buildings, 3. Make sure you have enough gc to deal with the lower income as peasants desert and enough soldiers for overpop desertion while your army is out?

[MyNameIsMatija]

You keep razing homes gradually to 115% population. Sometimes you just keep some homes within the build.

[yootohpeega]

I see, thanks. So like:

100 acres, 100 homes: 3500 total pop

100 acres, 54 homes, 46 acres other stuff: max pop = 3040

3500/3040 ~ 115% overpop.

Interesting tactic. Yeah, would have to raze a bit slowly. If you razed 46 acres at once, your max pop would suddenly drop to 2580 while you wait for the new buildings to become built.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Structures in progress give the same population space as completed ones, meaning all you have to do to increase your maximum population is put them into construction.
The 100% homes pump the thread mentions is a very extreme and rare case.
Even a simple one-time rebuild 115% population pump is rare in the warring tier from what I know, unless kingdoms drastically improved since the last time I warred. It does happen within the higher echelon warring KDs though and it is a KD-wide strategy. The tricky part with these end-up-on-negative-population strategies is that you have to keep a GC stock to even be able to pay wages to send your armies, this makes it a bit harder to execute, especially while warring.

[Bo To]

At 40% pop, the moment you transition from homes to other buildings, you risk overpop. Would the procedure be: 1. Send out army 2. raze homes and build other buildings, 3. Make sure you have enough gc to deal with the lower income as peasants desert and enough soldiers for overpop desertion while your army is out?

Or just grow and let homes % drop. Which is working strategy for unds during eowcf. They can overdraft and train extreme amount of off specs and after that hit for land keeping themselves trained. It's even better if they have WS.

[yootohpeega]

Structures in progress give the same population space as completed ones, meaning all you have to do to increase your maximum population is put them into construction.
The 100% homes pump the thread mentions is a very extreme and rare case.
Even a simple one-time rebuild 115% population pump is rare in the warring tier from what I know, unless kingdoms drastically improved since the last time I warred. It does happen within the higher echelon warring KDs though and it is a KD-wide strategy. The tricky part with these end-up-on-negative-population strategies is that you have to keep a GC stock to even be able to pay wages to send your armies, this makes it a bit harder to execute, especially while warring.

Oh, didn't realize that buildings in progress give pop space. Thanks.

Yeah, costs money to transition buildings (unless you're a dwarf or have stockpiled building credits) and support the military wages once peasants desert to bring overpop down from 115% to 100%.

[yootohpeega]

Or just grow and let homes % drop. Which is working strategy for unds during eowcf. They can overdraft and train extreme amount of off specs and after that hit for land keeping themselves trained. It's even better if they have WS.

Why specifically undeads? Cause offspecs are 9/0? And what makes them better at overdrafting than others?

[Shockwave]

It's probably a bad idea on an Undead since they have to attack to get elites ergo they can't efficiently homes pump.

Whether you can train elites or not has nothing to do with doing a homes pump. The efficiency is in putting as much military on your acres as possible. Just because you can't train elites does not make a homes pump inefficient.

Why specifically undeads? Cause offspecs are 9/0? And what makes them better at overdrafting than others?

Undead is not better at over drafting, sorry that this thread has led to this assumption. What you need to know about overdrafting is: if your opponent does it, you need to do it. Doesn't really matter what race.

If anything human is probably best at it because of the increased income. (You need very large amounts of GC to do this properly)

[Bo To]

Why specifically undeads? Cause offspecs are 9/0? And what makes them better at overdrafting than others?

Because the only way unds can train army is by growing. So overdrafting will keep them trained at higher size. It's not meant to stay on a specific size.

[yootohpeega]

Because the only way unds can train army is by growing. So overdrafting will keep them trained at higher size. It's not meant to stay on a specific size.

I see. I'm not sure what this has to do with the 100% homes strategy though. The point of the strategy seems to just be able to start a war with more or less 40% more army (in absolute numbers only of course, not in quality/effectiveness) than if you went with 0% homes at the start. In a war, all attackers are attacking and expecting land (unless they get hit, of course) regardless of race, so overdrafting would be relevant to all attackers. As long as you're expecting incoming land, whatever your stance or race may be, overdrafting makes sense in most cases.

One benefit I can see with undeads is no farms, so that's one less thing to worry about when you go 100% homes.

[yootohpeega]

Undead is not better at over drafting, sorry that this thread has led to this assumption. What you need to know about overdrafting is: if your opponent does it, you need to do it. Doesn't really matter what race.

If anything human is probably best at it because of the increased income. (You need very large amounts of GC to do this properly)

Yeah, thanks. Money is definitely the big limiting factor.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Whether you can train elites or not has nothing to do with doing a homes pump. The efficiency is in putting as much military on your acres as possible. Just because you can't train elites does not make a homes pump inefficient.

"Just" because you can't train elites. Yeah, I mean, who cares that you can't break banks as a bank killer prov etc. (not that you could call yourself killer anything on offspecs).

[yootohpeega]

Sorry, can you explain what a homes pump is?

[Caelum]

You could go high homes, draft like crazy and then rotate homes into good builds, while keeping the high BE. That would allow you to run a huge army and effective buildings for a short time.

This is precisely what I do, which was spurred on by something noobium said to me a couple years back.

As soon as CF starts I build high homes, and throw in banks or whatever else I need. It allows me to get a good income, and the high pop means faster drafting at a lower draft rate. As an attacker, I'm almost always ready by end of CF...even if I had to explore (without mills) the first 24 hours. Then I sit around aiding people that need fort because they still aren't ready. Once I raze the homes into war build, I'm always one of the highest draft rates in the kingdom...It's about as solid as it gets.

But even in doing that I rarely run over 40%, and never over 50%.