New age changes, and why they should be altered

[TheRo]

Hello Utopian community

I will get straight to the point here:

While I do very much applaud the new Utopian Lords for attempting to fix the long standing issue of bottom-feeding, I feel like they have gone somewhat overboard in the attempt. In theory the changes were good, and I was looking forward to an exciting new age, but now that we have been in our first war for about 4 RL days, it is just getting super tedious.
The new boosted top-feeding and reduced bottom-feeding gains formulas are also effective in wars. Perhaps even more so than outside war. From what I have seen so far, that makes the strongest province whoever can stay the smallest, while still maintaining high offense.

For example I attacked an 80% relative NW province while I was one of the biggest in my KD. This gained me about 15 acres (I was 900 acres or so at the time). After getting chained to 150 acres, I attacked a province 211% of my NW and gained 29 acres.

What this seems to lead to in war is that the smaller KD has the advantage. When the smaller KD grows bigger than the other KD due to the advantage, the advantage flips, and now the other KD has the advantage. I don't really see any end to this, so to me it seems these changes promote never-ending, deadlocked wars where KDs just try to tire each other out enough to no longer care enough to attack every time armies are in.

I have talked to a friend in another KD, who went to war several days before us, and they experience the same. Both KDs are stuck around the same NW and acres, because every time a KD starts to get the upper hand, the bottom-feeding penalties kick in, and the advantage flips. Needless to say, they are still at war too.

Now I have devised a strategy that will allow us to take advantage of this new dynamic, and bring down KDs 150% of our size. So this is not a post whining about not being able to adapt to new changes. It is a desperate cry for these new tweaks to be disabled during war, because I really don't want to stay at 400 acres all age and playing a game of "who can be the smallest and still have offense". I just don't see the point.

I was super excited about the new age and new changes, but during the last day or so, as it has become more and more clear how these changes affect the dynamics in war, I have actually started considering to sit this age out instead.

Some background: Our KD is not a ghetto. We are a warring KD and finished in top 5 for war wins last age, and top 15 for NW, land and honor. We are 25 active and experienced players, but many of us are getting very bored very fast.

We cannot possibly be the only ones noticing this. Please post here if you see the same for your KD and would like to support this message.

And to the new Utopian Lords: Please consider removing the bottom-feeding penalties during war!

Thank you for reading :o)

/ Ro

[Zauper]

Can you post actual numbers? (e.g. exact NW and land numbers with attacks)

Also, you realize the counter is just... To grow? If your core is say 3k acres minimum, then chaining with the improved mingains hitting down does significantly more damage and 0 def provs on more acres can be more easily hurt.

[Verminator]

It's weird seeing you post from your player name now. Cut it out.

[TheRo]

I will try:

I was 57k NW, 390acres about 2 hours ago, because I had regained a lot of land by hitting up. Got triple tapped by an Orc at 49k NW and 334 acres for the below numbers:

July 21 of YR0 Forces from XXX came through and ravaged our lands! They captured 59 acres! We lost 52 Harpies in this battle.
July 21 of YR0 Forces from XXX came through and ravaged our lands! They captured 46 acres! We lost 43 Harpies in this battle.
July 21 of YR0 Forces from XXX came through and ravaged our lands! They captured 35 acres! We lost 38 Harpies in this battle.

Within the same hour but after the first 3 hits, I got hit by another Orc at 99K NW 747 acres for this:

Forces from XXX came through and ravaged our lands! They captured 12 acres! We lost 21 Harpies in this battle.

Not sure if this is helpful, but I do not have exact numbers for NW and acres from 1 day ago when I was still at 900 acres, because I did not screenshot everything, but here is an example of gains I got on a province about 80% of my NW (I was about 130k NW, hitting a province around 110k NW):

June 13 of YR0 XXX (me) captured 44 acres of land from XXX

And sorry if I did something wrong Verminator, I am not used to this forum as you can see from my post count - What exactly would you like me to "cut out"?

[Palem]

He was talking to Zauper (one of the owners).

[TheRo]

Ah, got it - Thanks! :o)

[JeffT]

I will try:

I was 57k NW, 390acres about 2 hours ago, because I had regained a lot of land by hitting up. Got triple tapped by an Orc at 49k NW and 334 acres for the below numbers:

July 21 of YR0 Forces from XXX came through and ravaged our lands! They captured 59 acres! We lost 52 Harpies in this battle.
July 21 of YR0 Forces from XXX came through and ravaged our lands! They captured 46 acres! We lost 43 Harpies in this battle.
July 21 of YR0 Forces from XXX came through and ravaged our lands! They captured 35 acres! We lost 38 Harpies in this battle.

Within the same hour but after the first 3 hits, I got hit by another Orc at 99K NW 747 acres for this:

Forces from XXX came through and ravaged our lands! They captured 12 acres! We lost 21 Harpies in this battle.

Not sure if this is helpful, but I do not have exact numbers for NW and acres from 1 day ago when I was still at 900 acres, because I did not screenshot everything, but here is an example of gains I got on a province about 80% of my NW (I was about 130k NW, hitting a province around 110k NW):

June 13 of YR0 XXX (me) captured 44 acres of land from XXX

And sorry if I did something wrong Verminator, I am not used to this forum as you can see from my post count - What exactly would you like me to "cut out"?

So you were 390 acres and got 3xed by a prov in NW range of you for 140a (36% of your land, not unreasonable considering orc gains bonus). At this point, you were then 250 acres and got hit for 12 from a prov way OOR (2x+ your NW likely?) -- taking 4.8% of your land. Considering old mingains were 3%, 4.8% of your land is quite significant indeed, and 4xing a prov on land def (easy for a t/m to do) for 18-20% of their land can be a ton of damage.

Point being -- both topfeeding and bottomfeeding are significantly stronger than they had been in war, and there still hasn't been any evidence to the contrary posted in spite of a few complaints. As Zauper mentioned, all this does is show that if you are concerned about the capacity of small provs to stay engaged, the solution is to grow. Chaining someone down from 3k acres to 500 acres will do a lot more to prevent them from being able to participate than hitting them from 1k to 500 would -- even before the change to gains.

The old hit isn't as useful because we don't know the provs relative landsize to you, but wouldn't be affected by this age changes.

[Bart of Sparta]

As Zauper mentioned

[Bishop]

The orc that triple tapped you isn't top feeding. You are in range of him, his hits are not changed from last age. The guy that hit you for 12 acres, when i assume you were 250 acres, got more than he would have the previous age. The last hit you posted was also not affected by this ages changes.

[Pillz]

As Zauper mentioned,

That made me lol

[Bart of Sparta]

Last edited by JeffT; Today at 17:49.

[Danjor]

I'd like to say that Avian/Cleric vs UD/War Hero OOP is a perfect storm for a stalemate. 5 day war with NW barely moving (60k back and forth), Avians winning honor fight, and UD consistently out gaining land/leets by hitting from the bottom keeping them in the fight. Weak mages OOP don't help, but the increased gains from hitting up have definitely prolonged this fight.

[Verminator]

As Zauper mentioned,

Can we just change the thread topic to everyone getting a good giggle about this?

[Band of Horses]

As Zauper mentioned,

I am 100% okay with JayZ having multiple personalities. I hope everyone can respect his/their wishes. (If you need any advice let me know!)

#LongLiveZauper

[TheRo]

So you were 390 acres and got 3xed by a prov in NW range of you for 140a (36% of your land, not unreasonable considering orc gains bonus). At this point, you were then 250 acres and got hit for 12 from a prov way OOR (2x+ your NW likely?) -- taking 4.8% of your land. Considering old mingains were 3%, 4.8% of your land is quite significant indeed, and 4xing a prov on land def (easy for a t/m to do) for 18-20% of their land can be a ton of damage.

Point being -- both topfeeding and bottomfeeding are significantly stronger than they had been in war, and there still hasn't been any evidence to the contrary posted in spite of a few complaints. As Zauper mentioned, all this does is show that if you are concerned about the capacity of small provs to stay engaged, the solution is to grow. Chaining someone down from 3k acres to 500 acres will do a lot more to prevent them from being able to participate than hitting them from 1k to 500 would -- even before the change to gains.

The old hit isn't as useful because we don't know the provs relative landsize to you, but wouldn't be affected by this age changes.

Thanks for the answers all of you. I just wanted to raise this issue, as it feels like a downgrade to the game mechanics to me. I guess we will see where it goes for the rest of the age.

Good luck everyone!