"I've been playing this game a long time," said the noobie.

[Wolzly]

So I joined a kingdom at the start of last age, all the players were fresh to the kingdom. We picked a king, we got munk, we got slack, we won some wars, we lost some wars, we recruited and some defected out.

The death of my fresh ghetto is coming close, I've been smelling it for a while but just now I received clear confirmation that indeed the noobie's were revolting.

A few things to note for context:

- We've lost 4 strong attackers in the last 2 weeks, one of whom was the monarch (he was pk'd in war and has now disappeared).
- I was steward at the time and was promptly made king to avoid lacking monarchy mid-war (we lost the war).
- The message (sent in our slack #general chat out of the blue) was from a 2k acre undead (our kd avg size is 1k) who is running 51% guilds with 3.5k wizards already, 10+ dspecs/acre, and 0% homes while we are in day two of a max-time fort.

The confirmation:

"I've been playing this game a long time. If follow orders for the most part, but will run my province my way. You guys keep telling me how to run it I'll be the next to leave."


... this kinda stuff just makes my head spin. There needs to be a rehab program for these types of noobies.

[Coldhearted]

Building Kingdoms is extremely difficult anymore and frankly forcing outside communication makes it impossible. I suggest use in game communication till you get 22 fully committed with a few subs before you force slack on people. Just a suggestion anyways and good luck.

[Bart of Sparta]

Wolzly. If you want to build a true KD, simply don't expect it to do in an age, two ages, or even three. It takes at least one and a half years or more to build a proper KD with a strong and loyal core. Patience is all I can say, patience.

[sexual harassment panda]

Dspa is kind of high but there's nothing wrong with wpa pumping. More ghettos should try it. It lets you punish top kds who give up unfriendly. It also protects you in war. Plus, the guy doesn't even have 2 raw wpa. Maybe at 4 it's excessive, but definitely not at <2.

[Goodwitch]

Not sure what your complaint is really and obviously he doesn't either. If you want to lead, give precise orders and be prepared to explain why you gave that order at least until your team mates trust you. If you gave an order, had a good explanation and someone still doesn't follow it, let them go.
As mentioned before , building a kingdom is hard and takes a long time. You can't expect people to follow your lead unless they trust you and trust only comes with time.
If you talk like you did in your post "The death of my fresh ghetto is coming close, I've been smelling it for a while but just now I received clear confirmation that indeed the noobie's were revolting.", you will never build a kingdom. Why would they want to follow you? No clear goal, no motivation, no vision and then you insult them in a public forum. Maybe you should think about who you are calling a noob.

[StratOcastle]

Same here: I wish you good luck.

Now to advise, and no I'm no monarch but I can tell you who I'll serve and who I won't.

Control is overrated. No really, it is. Because a top kingdom full of like minded players disagrees is not the reality of the thousand parsecs between us and them. The majority are those that don't see eye to eye: that's us.

Embrace the chaos, focus on unity. The problem I see in so many kingdoms is they want order in esoteric doctrine. "We need a unirace core, We need to all use the intel thingy, We all need some external com system, We need to all be here at the same bat time same bat channel, blah, blah, blah."

What makes a kingdom badass is maturity and individual self confidence in the majority of the core. This means guys know what they're supposed to do and have a global perspective on the ramifications of their actions. Com systems are a luxury and the guys you depend on might be inclined to gravitate there. The mistake is shunning those who don't want to chatter BS.

Another is strict orders that have no reason to be strict. Like deep chaining a guy and then letting him grow out of control because everyone must hit a designated target. Let the guys who know their business work and the guys that need guidance will be drawn to you. Delegate stuff to guys who you depend on. Let them learn but instill courage and curiosity.

There's an epidemic of leadership in Utopia that can't grasp fun. Heck, there's a lot of players who can't grasp it either. For me, fun doesn't have to be nonsensical, but it is because of the embarrassing lack of skill and maturity in many kingdoms. Still, I'm having fun. I completely sympathize with mechanical inability, but I'm at a loss for why anyone would choose bullying, fear and misery as a time filler.

And finally: If you want to center yourself look no further than these 5 province kingdoms, or myself who went out solo. To be at peace with quality over quantity is an important lesson. You don't have to throw out knuckleheads: because they are the spark of adventure. If knucklehead gives a button we must all adapt. If knucklehead goes inactive we must adapt. Develop your band of brothers and the rest will follow.

[Pillz]

So I joined a kingdom at the start of last age, all the players were fresh to the kingdom. We picked a king, we got munk, we got slack, we won some wars, we lost some wars, we recruited and some defected out.

The death of my fresh ghetto is coming close, I've been smelling it for a while but just now I received clear confirmation that indeed the noobie's were revolting.

A few things to note for context:

- We've lost 4 strong attackers in the last 2 weeks, one of whom was the monarch (he was pk'd in war and has now disappeared).
- I was steward at the time and was promptly made king to avoid lacking monarchy mid-war (we lost the war).
- The message (sent in our slack #general chat out of the blue) was from a 2k acre undead (our kd avg size is 1k) who is running 51% guilds with 3.5k wizards already, 10+ dspecs/acre, and 0% homes while we are in day two of a max-time fort.

The confirmation:

"I've been playing this game a long time. If follow orders for the most part, but will run my province my way. You guys keep telling me how to run it I'll be the next to leave."


... this kinda stuff just makes my head spin. There needs to be a rehab program for these types of noobies.

Kill the undead now. Bounce him down and raze kill him.

Drop your wall for 2-3 new provinces at a time. Kill the ones that don't immediately make an effort to participate (maybe give them 72h). Invite people externally (forums, IRC, friends) as you're able and rinse-and-repeat the wall thing until you're full.

Don't hesitate to kill off provinces that under-perform according to the standards you set for your KD. If you're taking the time to hunt them down, communicate your wishes to them, and they still neglect to meet them or are unable to do so (making an adequate number of attacks in war, meeting waves, etc) then kill them.

Don't expect to win while you're building, and don't over play the hand you've got. Maybe you're 17 hype AF provinces, but you could be better off looking ghetto to bait ghettos to help gain experience across the board and some morale. Work your way up to more challenging opponents slowly and constantly evaluate your kingdoms performance in and out of war. Who follows orders, who is using stealth OOW to rob gc for themselves or to aid out, who is making abducts or growing OOW, who is missing hits or not keeping up with ops in war, etc. Remove the ones who don't do as they should.

[goodlilwitch]

Maybe start that rehab yourself...

Being a leader is not instant. Just because they elected you king doesn't mean you are a leader. They gave you the title, now you have to earn it. *****ing about your KD and it's noobies is not the best way to start.

As others have said, you could kick him to the curb. Sometimes that's the best kind of rehab... after he's kicked from a few KDs he might eventually choose to realize he's the problem.

However, as a leader, it will come to you to teach them... you can't expect every player to already know everything you need them to know. Whether they're new to the game or returning (or have been playing it forever), you need to teach them what they need to know to thrive in your KD. Otherwise, you're going to be supremely unhappy with everyone who isn't you in your KD and they will likewise be unhappy with you.

[Wolzly]

I'm not a leader, I admit that.

I have been monarch of at least 4 different kingdoms over the last 6 years. Every one of those kingdom suffered some kind of catastrophic collapse. I am not cut out for it.

That's why I wasn't monarch for the first 4 months of the kingdom's existance. But when you appear to know a lot about the game and have no qualms telling people about it, you inevitably end up getting roped into leadership. Having my semi-noob king die and not come back was a surprise, I never intended to become king. I didn't tell or even ask for votes. After the king disappeared I was prepared to leave the kingdom at that point.

I appreciate all the kind/understanding words.

To the "it's not so bad arguers": a 2k acre undead wizard pumping in a kd of 1k acre provinces, when the entire kingdom just did a weeklong wizard pump 2 weeks before. (he has 4000 wizards now. at the start of the fort i gave explicit orders for attackers not to jack up guilds if they are between 2000 and 3000 wizards. The 2k acre guys we had were expected to lose land thru randoms, CERTAINLY not remain at 2k acres and go to war like that... you really think having 4k wizards on an undead is smart? In the ghetto warring tier? How much popspace will he have on 200 acres with 4k wizards? :P

@Goodwitch, wtf? So many assumptions just to paint me as some kind of villain. If you want more facts ask for them :P



Also, I know that it comes to me to teach, that's why I try to communicate as much as I do. I attempt to spark discussion on buildstrat and population breakdown. I attempt to involve players and to empower them. The problem is when one of these 'old-timer' noobies sits his arse in the dirt and refuses to budge. They stay relatively silent through all discussion, and then when a decision has been made they pipe up with a 'nope, not doing that. been playing a long time, i'll play my way'. Or even better just say nothing and ignore all decisions/orders relating to build. Only even letting leadership know their opinion when leadership confronts them on why they are playing so far off-grid.

I've run into this too many times to keep track of. This is what I mean by a 'noobie'. To me a newbie is a new player who can be tought, but a noobie is someone who's ill-founded ideas are so long-standing that there's no way to have any dialogue. They are not open to it, they are unwilling to consider any perspective other than their own.

Often times it's painted as a freedom thing. As if I am some kind of right-wing freedom hating totalitarian: "don't make me a mindless drone" they say. But the truth is I just like utopia and I like being good at it. I like the teamwork it takes, the selflessness, the camaraderie it can nurture. I don't need to be the puppet master, and like Strat0 points out I don't need it to be a hive-mind mentality. But I do require teamwork, understanding, a willingness to listen, and the desire to improve.

Constant improvement should be the credo of all utopians.

The statement which caused me to make this thread is the exact opposite of that principle, and I'll post it again for dramatic effect:

"I've been playing this game a long time. If follow orders for the most part, but will run my province my way. You guys keep telling me how to run it I'll be the next to leave."

[Coldhearted]

Sounds like wolzly you need to merge with another kingdom that already has a rock solid foundation to find peace. I have done that twice where I couldn't find good players and ended up merging with another kingdom. It's my preferred way to recruit actually and I kick out the slackers I kept around that just fill positions. I am not running my kingdom this age due to health problems but next age I probably will go back to run my kingdom. If you where interested in a merger for next age I am always open to it. Just be warned I fight anyone on even footing and expect everyone to follow orders. ;)

[Goodwitch]

I'm not a leader, I admit that.

I have been monarch of at least 4 different kingdoms over the last 6 years. Every one of those kingdom suffered some kind of catastrophic collapse. I am not cut out for it.

That's why I wasn't monarch for the first 4 months of the kingdom's existance. But when you appear to know a lot about the game and have no qualms telling people about it, you inevitably end up getting roped into leadership. Having my semi-noob king die and not come back was a surprise, I never intended to become king. I didn't tell or even ask for votes. After the king disappeared I was prepared to leave the kingdom at that point.

I appreciate all the kind/understanding words.

To the "it's not so bad arguers": a 2k acre undead wizard pumping in a kd of 1k acre provinces, when the entire kingdom just did a weeklong wizard pump 2 weeks before. (he has 4000 wizards now. at the start of the fort i gave explicit orders for attackers not to jack up guilds if they are between 2000 and 3000 wizards. The 2k acre guys we had were expected to lose land thru randoms, CERTAINLY not remain at 2k acres and go to war like that... you really think having 4k wizards on an undead is smart? In the ghetto warring tier? How much popspace will he have on 200 acres with 4k wizards? :P

@Goodwitch, wtf? So many assumptions just to paint me as some kind of villain. If you want more facts ask for them :P



Also, I know that it comes to me to teach, that's why I try to communicate as much as I do. I attempt to spark discussion on buildstrat and population breakdown. I attempt to involve players and to empower them. The problem is when one of these 'old-timer' noobies sits his arse in the dirt and refuses to budge. They stay relatively silent through all discussion, and then when a decision has been made they pipe up with a 'nope, not doing that. been playing a long time, i'll play my way'. Or even better just say nothing and ignore all decisions/orders relating to build. Only even letting leadership know their opinion when leadership confronts them on why they are playing so far off-grid.

I've run into this too many times to keep track of. This is what I mean by a 'noobie'. To me a newbie is a new player who can be tought, but a noobie is someone who's ill-founded ideas are so long-standing that there's no way to have any dialogue. They are not open to it, they are unwilling to consider any perspective other than their own.

Often times it's painted as a freedom thing. As if I am some kind of right-wing freedom hating totalitarian: "don't make me a mindless drone" they say. But the truth is I just like utopia and I like being good at it. I like the teamwork it takes, the selflessness, the camaraderie it can nurture. I don't need to be the puppet master, and like Strat0 points out I don't need it to be a hive-mind mentality. But I do require teamwork, understanding, a willingness to listen, and the desire to improve.

Constant improvement should be the credo of all utopians.

The statement which caused me to make this thread is the exact opposite of that principle, and I'll post it again for dramatic effect:

"I've been playing this game a long time. If follow orders for the most part, but will run my province my way. You guys keep telling me how to run it I'll be the next to leave."

If someone doesn't want to adhere to your kingdom's plans ask them to leave and if they refuse , kill them.
But if you don't aim to have over 2 wpa on your attackers , I think maybe you are missing something.
I love warring kingdoms with sucky wizards. Our mages and attackers can take out whatever offense/defense you think you are adding with that 1 or 2 pop space within minutes.

[erm]

Lol...seems like a fine undead to me. No homes??? To each his own I guess.

[XCross]

I have been monarch of at least 4 different kingdoms over the last 6 years. Every one of those kingdom suffered some kind of catastrophic collapse. I am not cut out for it.

Hmmm... then maybe you need to start listening to why he's doing what he's doing? Maybe that'll make you a better leader :)
Agree with most of the post here about Undeads having at least 2wpa if he can pump that high. It shows strategy. You're already at an unfair disadvantage being unable to use stealth for anything but intel, if you cant even use mana for anyting decent you're wasting half of your potential. And if you have weak tpa/wpa you're just begging to be eaten alive by enemy tms, especialy when you're the biggest on your kd, which sounds like he is.

[AquaSeaFoam]

There's a good chance that undead is the best player in your kingdom (yourself included) and, like XCross suggests, you might want to have some discussions with him without assumptions about you knowing better than him. Maybe he will help you with running the kingdom. If you give serious open minded effort to get him involved and he has no interest in helping, then you might need to ask him to find a new kingdom.

It seems that you acknowledge you're not cut out for monarching, but you also assume that you know best and other (bigger) provinces are nubs. Perhaps those assumptions are what are holding you back from being a good monarch.

[Wolzly]

...