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Thread: Reviving Utopia

  1. #1
    Forum Addict smercjd's Avatar
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    Reviving Utopia

    As I am a wordy guy...

    TL:DR Version
    1. Noobs feel imprisoned by "top kds" hitting them. Solutions/suggestions at end
    2. Advertise (after fixing 1)
    3. Step-Wise tutorial.
    --part 1: beginner basics [restricted]
    --part 2: intermediate speed boosted mini-server [restricted]
    --part 3: Genesis server with rules that probably piss off biggies (see Solutions/Suggestions to 1) [open]
    --part 4: primary server without those rules (game as it currently is/aka no longer tutorial) [open]
    4. Lore &/ Graphics in guide.

    Solutions/Suggestions to 1 (applies to the baby server/protected server, [3, part 3])
    a) Reasonable Max/Min KD NW/Land hitting. Abuse prevention through not applying the rule under heavier than "normal" relations.
    b) Automated diplo. Giving KD UF sends tutorial type message/note to Monarch and Steward advising them to begin relations with link to PM UF'd KD monarch (and a warning about ops/no limits on attacks/kd nw)

    Be constructive

    --------------------------------------------------
    I was recently told about how Utopia has new leadership and is working on reviving Utopia...came back all excited to see the reviving work and...no. I'm sorry but there are some fatal problems that until fixed there is little to nothing you can do to actually make it work.

    1. The most important problem to fix is the perception that new players face that they are stuck. This stems from a variety of things, but the largest aspect is the big kingdoms will farm little ones and they can't do anything about it. (Spare me the, "but they can and they have advantages etc..."yes I get it, I know, I used those advantages when I played)...the problem is new players do not get it and will not get it until they've had a few ages to learn more about Utopia (or at least a majority of one age). This can't happen if they quit withing the first 2-3 weeks. I will post my suggestions for potential solutions at the very end of this post.

    2. Once #1 is resolved, advertising is obvious. Increases the "hmm let's try it!"

    3. In order to make #2 effective in retention, you want to have a very tutorial esque guide. Maybe a separate server (if that is withing your reasonable capabilities) that is strictly for new players. (Who select an option of "I'm brand new and would like to take this tutorial). It could be a totally isolated system where they are placed in a kd with some fake robot provinces that say things here and there to help them out. These robot provinces (or maybe one robot monarch province) should primarily focus on the absolute BASICS of the game. How to attack, thieve, spellerize, message, post in forums, participate in utopia forums, etc.

    -- 3a. The new player can choose at any time to move on to tutorial part 2 (or if they do not choose such, there should definitely be an "end" to this tutorial). They tutorial part 2 should be limited to players coming directly from tutorial 1. It should be a 1/4 of an age or so as well as paced at an accelerated time (maybe 2x as fast or 3x as fast). Players learn here how Utopia is time based, how to interact with other players (rather than the tutorial robot), and how to work with diplomacy and come up with strategies. Furthermore, this tutorial should take the place of a whole account. That means, if you are an oldie who wants to play your warring kd or growth kd etc in the ACTUAL age, you won't be encouraged to do a random/meaningless tutorial. EDIT: This might be difficult to maintain enough players to actually make it anything at all useful...You might have to hand-pick MATURE regulars to partake in this tutorial. Mature in the sense that the goal here is NOT to "win" but rather to help newer players learn. There are many many individuals that I could easily see doing this well. As such, these hand-picked individuals could still play in the primary servers (not trying to penalize people who are nice, lol).

    -- 3b. At any time, (maybe have a minimum amount of "Utopia days"), the player can then choose to graduate to the actual primary servers. Obviously this will be off time to the actual age most of the time. The player can also choose to wait until the end of the tutorial age where they are automatically upgraded to the primary servers.

    EDIT: note: these first two tutorials should have a restricted accessibility. As in...one utopia account cannot play on any of the primary servers while playing the tutorials. However, a player can and should be encouraged to have an account on both Genesis and WoL.

    4. Least urgent, but also very important. Lore. Visuals. People like stories and they like cool images/videos/graphics. No, I don't mean the game itself should be a visual game, but throw some pictures in the guide, some stories about Avian and how they came to be a race in this magical world, etc. Add some rivalries, some original story about the personalities, spells, thievery, war attacks, etc. There is so so much that Utopia is capable of and very little of it is actually exploited.

    Potential Solutions to #1
    Think constructively please...if something obviously doesn't work, think of how it COULD work. -- ex of how to think: say I suggest creating a building named factory that increases BE. Obviously, it implies that all factors should be taken to ensure this isn't an infinite loophole - like "not affected by BE")

    ALSO -- if these rules were applied to a separate server (the Beginner mode or something aka "Genesis") the main servers could be retained without THESE specific solutions.
    This would allow growth in the Genesis server for the new player base that would naturally feel they have become competent enough to take on the big dogs and start learning of Pyro and BB and I forget who all is "important," but all them.

    a) Create a max KD NW difference that players can attack into (maybe 2x or 3x NW or so) as well as backwards. KDs that are tiny should also not be able to mess with huge ones. There's no reason and this makes realistic sense. Why the heck would Uruguay try and pick a fight with Russia? [yes, I know big KDs are all great and powerful and know how to abuse NW better than small ones...but 1, that's still something extra either KD would have to do to make it work, and 2, the big kds will simply outgrow the small ones]. This is intended to fix the issue, however. The abuses that are most likely to happen are 1/2 size warring kds that want to pick at large KDs. If for whatever reason unfriendly/hostile is given, those KDs can fight regardless of size. This is a 2 way street, but mostly resolves the problem, I think.
    KD A = 10mil NW
    KD B = 5mil NW

    B - can only hit A 2x, then MUST NW shrink to avoid retal, however, A can also adjust NW to retal if they choose and could do so more effectively/easily than B, as well as regrow NW out of range. However, if B gives A unfriendly, A can attack freely regardless of KD NW, but B cannot unless A also gives unfriendly. Make sense? I hope so. Similar to how ops are currently restricted. This allows some cheap shots, but should prevent KDs that really have no business messing with each other get out of hand.

    b) GB related to Diplo. Monarchs (Or maybe the RC) should include an automatic message of "You have gone unfriendly with KD XX:XX - our advisers suggest you consider diplomatic relations with their King/Queen link to PM monarch/steward. Furthermore, each foreign kingdom our kingdom is unfriendly with have access to more advanced thievery/magic and have no kingdom size restriction limits. This means they can attack us freely, if this is not what you want, please read the Utopia rules found at link to relations part of guide". This encourages newer Monarchs to get that oh wait, there's another aspect of this game than just numbers. It doesn't force anything, they still have to choose to click that button or whatever...but some don't really know that diplo should happen.


    I say the above with my very sincere and honest opinion. I do not say them as absolute fact (even if I used that word somewhere, lol). I understand that I don't know everything, that there are difficulties, and that some of this may even be somewhat unfair to some of the older player base (primarily #1). Though I do believe that 2-4 can help with 1 as well as the suggestions I posted at the end... Again, please think constructively, I'm clearly putting time and effort into these suggestions even though I'm not even playing the game. I have been in many many KDs and have heard all sides of every story (as they say in French J'ai beaucoup roule ma bosse) and this is the best I could come up with (smarter people could probably do better, but maybe this helps those smarter people get kick-started).
    Last edited by smercjd; 17-04-2017 at 11:59.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by smercjd View Post
    As I am a wordy guy...

    TL:DR Version
    1. Noobs feel imprisoned by "top kds" hitting them. Solutions/suggestions at end
    2. Advertise (after fixing 1)
    3. Step-Wise tutorial.
    --part 1: beginner basics [restricted]
    --part 2: intermediate speed boosted mini-server [restricted]
    --part 3: Genesis server with rules that probably piss off biggies (see Solutions/Suggestions to 1) [open]
    --part 4: primary server without those rules (game as it currently is/aka no longer tutorial) [open]
    4. Lore &/ Graphics in guide.

    Solutions/Suggestions to 1 (applies to the baby server/protected server, [3, part 3])
    a) Reasonable Max/Min KD NW/Land hitting. Abuse prevention through not applying the rule under heavier than "normal" relations.
    b) Automated diplo. Giving KD UF sends tutorial type message/note to Monarch and Steward advising them to begin relations with link to PM UF'd KD monarch (and a warning about ops/no limits on attacks/kd nw)

    Be constructive

    --------------------------------------------------
    I was recently told about how Utopia has new leadership and is working on reviving Utopia...came back all excited to see the reviving work and...no. I'm sorry but there are some fatal problems that until fixed there is little to nothing you can do to actually make it work.

    1. The most important problem to fix is the perception that new players face that they are stuck. This stems from a variety of things, but the largest aspect is the big kingdoms will farm little ones and they can't do anything about it. (Spare me the, "but they can and they have advantages etc..."yes I get it, I know, I used those advantages when I played)...the problem is new players do not get it and will not get it until they've had a few ages to learn more about Utopia (or at least a majority of one age). This can't happen if they quit withing the first 2-3 weeks. I will post my suggestions for potential solutions at the very end of this post.

    2. Once #1 is resolved, advertising is obvious. Increases the "hmm let's try it!"

    3. In order to make #2 effective in retention, you want to have a very tutorial esque guide. Maybe a separate server (if that is withing your reasonable capabilities) that is strictly for new players. (Who select an option of "I'm brand new and would like to take this tutorial). It could be a totally isolated system where they are placed in a kd with some fake robot provinces that say things here and there to help them out. These robot provinces (or maybe one robot monarch province) should primarily focus on the absolute BASICS of the game. How to attack, thieve, spellerize, message, post in forums, participate in utopia forums, etc.

    -- 3a. The new player can choose at any time to move on to tutorial part 2 (or if they do not choose such, there should definitely be an "end" to this tutorial). They tutorial part 2 should be limited to players coming directly from tutorial 1. It should be a 1/4 of an age or so as well as paced at an accelerated time (maybe 2x as fast or 3x as fast). Players learn here how Utopia is time based, how to interact with other players (rather than the tutorial robot), and how to work with diplomacy and come up with strategies. Furthermore, this tutorial should take the place of a whole account. That means, if you are an oldie who wants to play your warring kd or growth kd etc in the ACTUAL age, you won't be encouraged to do a random/meaningless tutorial. EDIT: This might be difficult to maintain enough players to actually make it anything at all useful...You might have to hand-pick MATURE regulars to partake in this tutorial. Mature in the sense that the goal here is NOT to "win" but rather to help newer players learn. There are many many individuals that I could easily see doing this well. As such, these hand-picked individuals could still play in the primary servers (not trying to penalize people who are nice, lol).

    -- 3b. At any time, (maybe have a minimum amount of "Utopia days"), the player can then choose to graduate to the actual primary servers. Obviously this will be off time to the actual age most of the time. The player can also choose to wait until the end of the tutorial age where they are automatically upgraded to the primary servers.

    EDIT: note: these first two tutorials should have a restricted accessibility. As in...one utopia account cannot play on any of the primary servers while playing the tutorials. However, a player can and should be encouraged to have an account on both Genesis and WoL.

    4. Least urgent, but also very important. Lore. Visuals. People like stories and they like cool images/videos/graphics. No, I don't mean the game itself should be a visual game, but throw some pictures in the guide, some stories about Avian and how they came to be a race in this magical world, etc. Add some rivalries, some original story about the personalities, spells, thievery, war attacks, etc. There is so so much that Utopia is capable of and very little of it is actually exploited.

    Potential Solutions to #1
    Think constructively please...if something obviously doesn't work, think of how it COULD work. -- ex of how to think: say I suggest creating a building named factory that increases BE. Obviously, it implies that all factors should be taken to ensure this isn't an infinite loophole - like "not affected by BE")

    ALSO -- if these rules were applied to a separate server (the Beginner mode or something aka "Genesis") the main servers could be retained without THESE specific solutions.
    This would allow growth in the Genesis server for the new player base that would naturally feel they have become competent enough to take on the big dogs and start learning of Pyro and BB and I forget who all is "important," but all them.

    a) Create a max KD NW difference that players can attack into (maybe 2x or 3x NW or so) as well as backwards. KDs that are tiny should also not be able to mess with huge ones. There's no reason and this makes realistic sense. Why the heck would Uruguay try and pick a fight with Russia? [yes, I know big KDs are all great and powerful and know how to abuse NW better than small ones...but 1, that's still something extra either KD would have to do to make it work, and 2, the big kds will simply outgrow the small ones]. This is intended to fix the issue, however. The abuses that are most likely to happen are 1/2 size warring kds that want to pick at large KDs. If for whatever reason unfriendly/hostile is given, those KDs can fight regardless of size. This is a 2 way street, but mostly resolves the problem, I think.
    KD A = 10mil NW
    KD B = 5mil NW

    B - can only hit A 2x, then MUST NW shrink to avoid retal, however, A can also adjust NW to retal if they choose and could do so more effectively/easily than B, as well as regrow NW out of range. However, if B gives A unfriendly, A can attack freely regardless of KD NW, but B cannot unless A also gives unfriendly. Make sense? I hope so. Similar to how ops are currently restricted. This allows some cheap shots, but should prevent KDs that really have no business messing with each other get out of hand.

    b) GB related to Diplo. Monarchs (Or maybe the RC) should include an automatic message of "You have gone unfriendly with KD XX:XX - our advisers suggest you consider diplomatic relations with their King/Queen link to PM monarch/steward. Furthermore, each foreign kingdom our kingdom is unfriendly with have access to more advanced thievery/magic and have no kingdom size restriction limits. This means they can attack us freely, if this is not what you want, please read the Utopia rules found at link to relations part of guide". This encourages newer Monarchs to get that oh wait, there's another aspect of this game than just numbers. It doesn't force anything, they still have to choose to click that button or whatever...but some don't really know that diplo should happen.


    I say the above with my very sincere and honest opinion. I do not say them as absolute fact (even if I used that word somewhere, lol). I understand that I don't know everything, that there are difficulties, and that some of this may even be somewhat unfair to some of the older player base (primarily #1). Though I do believe that 2-4 can help with 1 as well as the suggestions I posted at the end... Again, please think constructively, I'm clearly putting time and effort into these suggestions even though I'm not even playing the game. I have been in many many KDs and have heard all sides of every story (as they say in French J'ai beaucoup roule ma bosse) and this is the best I could come up with (smarter people could probably do better, but maybe this helps those smarter people get kick-started).
    If you really want to help make the game better and bigger there are several avenues open now. You could play on the test server to fix mech issues etc, or join the group working on the guide, help develop new tools to be integrated into the game eventually. All those things are in the works and volunteers are always wanted.

  3. #3
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    I did make a suggestion few ages back that KDs should be able to op/attack other KDs only in 75-125% of their NW(declare range). Bottom/top feeding won't be possible and the competition between KDs in each zone would increase.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goodwitch View Post
    You could play on the test server to fix mech issues etc,
    There is a test server? How do u access it?

  4. #4
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    Classic smerc lol. I agree that it would be helpful to anchor the game in some very light lore. Some of this has grown up around the races--Undead die less easily, Dwarves eat a lot and have strong buildings, etc. The game could do a little better signalling these characteristics.

    There is a test server? How do u access it?
    The test server is for the devs.

  5. #5
    Veteran goodlilwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andurilas View Post
    Classic smerc lol. I agree that it would be helpful to anchor the game in some very light lore. Some of this has grown up around the races--Undead die less easily, Dwarves eat a lot and have strong buildings, etc. The game could do a little better signalling these characteristics.



    The test server is for the devs.
    No, it's not. Players go in and play like mini rounds and report to the devs, if I understand it correctly. There's a link for it in IRC, I believe.

  6. #6
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    I come bearing gifts.

    "If you'd like to be a part of the Utopia Test Team, send an email to test@utopia-game.com or PM DavidC."

  7. #7
    Veteran RattleHead's Avatar
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    Ugh, IRC?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    Ugh, IRC?
    to pm david yea irc but test server discussions are mainly on slack. Just email and you'll get an invite.

  9. #9
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    You probably could PM here on the forum.

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