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Thread: Marine Le Pen Vs. Emmanuel Macron

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    You guys make me laugh. Lol. No one really cares about France, it's not like they can even win a war. Honestly USA saved them twice and should have just kept France instead of giving it back to the French people.
    'No-one cares about France' - not a fact. Actually, a nonsense statement. What you mean is 'I, handofthrawn, don't care about France'.
    'It's not like they can even win a war' - not a fact. France has been involved in dozens of peace-keeping operations in Africa over the last decade and a half, all of which they 'won'. French troops defeated the Germans outside Paris in WW1 and prevented them conquering France. The 'Free French' fighters in WW2 also were instrumental in allowing the Allies to land on the beaches, with their intel, sabotage ops, and false news spread through the Germans that caused German forces to mass in the wrong spot for the Allied invasion.
    'The USA saved them twice' - not a fact. The USA, Brits, Aussies, Canadians, Saffas, Indians, Pakistanis...etc combined defeated the Germans in WW2. The Americans were not involved in the Battle of Marne in WW1, when France and the UK defeated the Germans and forced their retreat.
    'The USA should have just kept France instead of giving it back to the French' - er, not a fact. A weird, imperial opinion, if anything.
    'The USA gave back the countries after we liberated them. We did not have to do this.' - not a fact (if we're talking about France, which we are). Actually, not even an opinion. Just a weird statement. The US was involved in helping liberate an ally, not conquering a nation. Had the US held France, there would have been a poltiical shitstorm, and most likely we would have seen a further war with the Russians (and very possibly the UK, as the UK had a pact with the French) fight the Americans and try to forcibly remove them from France.

    A few more things:

    a) France has been a resolute ally of the US for a long time. French troops fought alongside Americans in Kuwait. French troops fought alongside Americans in Afghanistan. French troops fought alongside Americans in Iraq. French troops fought alongside Americans in Vietnam, in Libya, in Korea, and currently vs ISIS. To understand the dynamic between France and America as a one-way flow of resources is simply misinformed, and genuinely ignorant.
    b) France has been one of the most important peace-keeping countries in modern years. French peace-keepers have been in CAR, Israel, Palestine, Ivory Coast, Lebanon, Somalia, Burkina Faso, Chad, Kosovo, Libya, and others.
    c) French elections are as important for the French as the US elections are for Americans. Why must you denigrate it to 'no-one cares about France'? That's unbelievably dismissive. The world is bigger than the US, and looking at what is happening in other countries, as well as educating yourself on the basics of foreign politics, policy and society, is crucial for societal progress.

    Actually, none of what you said is 'fact'. SOME of what you said is BASED in truth. But 80% of your comment is opinion. You claiming that your opinion is fact does not make it a fact. Further than that, your opinion is based on a pretty clear lack of understanding and misinformation. Instead of just saying 'I'm right-wing, and I'm American, so a) I ONLY support right-wing politics in every country all across the world without actually reading anything or being even slightly contextually-aware, and b) **** everything outside of the US, maybe you would be better served trying to open your mind and at least consider the merits of an opinion that does not match yours.
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  2. #17
    Post Demon Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    If France elects Le Pen, they'll be pulling out of the EU, which means the EU will either end, or be pretty insignificant globally.
    (For anyone curious why this is a big deal)
    I don't think the French President has the power to do that without a vote in parliament, and as she controls something like 0.35% of parliament...

    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    I don't think you're quite understanding the idea of secession. If a state decides that things are so bad and they decide to seceed, they no longer acknowledge the laws of the United States, making a US law against secession a moot point.

    The point of the law is to make it very clear that secession will be met with an invasion and a reclaiming of the state (s) and it's people. That however is a separate issue entirely from States being "allowed" to seceed. Of course they can, but the consequences most likely wouldn't be worth it.

    Ironically, false.
    Well there also has to be political will to fight a civil war which is anything but certain. And with other nations throwing their support for the defecting side just to interfere things could turn very very nasty very fast. And of course the loyalty of the military cannot 100% be relied upon in such a situation, it would be a disaster to morale to have to fight your former comrades in arms.
    Last edited by Elldallan; 05-05-2017 at 23:30.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elldallan View Post
    I don't think the French President has the power to do that without a vote in parliament, and as she controls something like 0.35% of parliament...
    I know basically nothing about how any government outside of the US works (though I assume they're not radically different, at least parliamentary systems). But that being said my understanding of why this is concerning for most of Europe is the very real possibility that a La Pen victory would mean a very serious threat of France leaving the EU, which would be catastrophic (for the EU)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    Everything I say is based in facts and I am sorry you guys don't want to hear it. Fact is USA saved Europe twice, Fact USA gave back countries after liberating them. We did not have to do this and could have followed Russia by remaining in countries we liberated as a conquering force. Point is without the USA all of Europe would be speaking German. After ww2 without the USA you would be speaking Russian.
    No, thats not true, or do you actually have factual evidence that points towards that France has never won a war? Remember that France is much older than USA so you have to think very hard.

  5. #20
    Post Demon Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    No, thats not true, or do you actually have factual evidence that points towards that France has never won a war? Remember that France is much older than USA so you have to think very hard.
    No he doesn't have any such evidence unless he fabricates them like Trump fabricates "truths" because France throughout it's 1200 years or so of history has won multiple wars. Just take a look at Napoleon I who won several wars to the point where the whole of Europe basically had to unite against him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    I know basically nothing about how any government outside of the US works (though I assume they're not radically different, at least parliamentary systems). But that being said my understanding of why this is concerning for most of Europe is the very real possibility that a La Pen victory would mean a very serious threat of France leaving the EU, which would be catastrophic (for the EU)
    No doubt Le Pen could cause a whole lot of mischief, much like Trump is That on and of self would spell a bunch of problems for EU, especially given Brexit negotiations. But I'm fairly sure that just like Trump can't end NATO or cancel international treaties without the support of congress etc Le Pen would face similar hurdles. From my googling it seems that the office of the French President holds a lot less power than the US one and most of the faily power the French President has stems from the fact that the President appoints the prime minister and thus the cabinet, but parliament can declare a vote of no confidence and depose the cabinet if they don't like it, and the President can then depose the National Assembly, but only once per year. So Le Pen winning power would likely mean a whole lot of unrest and political instability until she's somehow deposed, so it'd be chaos but I do think it'd take more to bring France out of the EU.
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  6. #21
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    Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right about the French president's personal power. However, I think her election would drag France out of the EU (or at least to the brink of leaving) because if she were elected, it would be a 'this proves the will of the people is to leave the EU' kinda thing. Her cabinet/ministers/I don't know the French version would likely then back their leader and push that agenda hard.
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  7. #22
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Meh, the recent polls shows Macron has 60% ish lead so would need a big ass turnover.

  8. #23
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    Well getting your emails leaked 4 minutes before a legal political blackout will certainly do some damage.

    Hard to imagine that another nationalist candidate with ties to Russia who has nothing but good things to say about Putin suddenly had their opposition get hacked.
    \_(ツ)_/

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    Meh, the recent polls shows Macron has 60% ish lead so would need a big ass turnover.
    I dunno man...Brexit was polling 60-40 as 'stay'. There's been a surprising number of 'silent embarassed' right-wing voters in recent politics. It looks reasonably safe, and let's hope Macron takes it.
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    *If a Utopian falls in the woods, and no-one is around to see him...was he still bottom-feeding?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    No, thats not true, or do you actually have factual evidence that points towards that France has never won a war? Remember that France is much older than USA so you have to think very hard.
    *sigh*

    Korp is right. Without France also waging war on the UK, the USA wouldn't even exist. It would have been likely to lose the war of Independence.

    It was the fact that France was at war with the UK and also provided logistical support that allowed the US to win that war. :P

  11. #26
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    I'm too much a conspiracy theorist to offer much to the conversation.

    First world nations are at odds with money grubbers. If stage one is to flood first world labor markets it doesn't matter how it's accomplished. In the US things were set in motion by union breaking and consequentially poor public education.
    Pensions were dissolved and replaced by 401k plans which is akin to direct financial injection to the machine that is destroying us.

    Union smashing and lowering educational standards had no traction in Europe, but a united effort driven by the Euro: money offered a way to passive capitalism. The leverage in this case involved capitalist incursions in secular, albeit doctoral, nations. By destabilization and experience in nation building these things were done with a directive.

    In the meantime - https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ze-of-new-york

    Elitist require a retreat to a monoethnic culture of predictable moral character to reduce the chance for retribution. Victoria Island, British Columbia is being bought up prior to the absolute collapse of the Canadian housing bubble. I predict you'll see maximum leverage here to purify Chinese ownership. And no, I'm not blaming the Chinese. This is about global elitism based in the religion of money.

    http://247wallst.com/special-report/...n-every-state/

    The above article shows that monopolies can function from the inside out, like cancer. I'm not sure if you're keeping up with all the retailers closing across the US. Industries boast of upcoming robot labor in all non-skilled jobs. In the meantime the flood of immigration continues. And again, not blaming the immigrants or refugees. This is about global elitists taking control of large portions of first world nations, undermining them through fiscal religion.

    You'll note that these campaigns against terrorism are directed at nations who have certain cultural values above financial gains. This doesn't mean they are angels of morality, but that their culture is imbedded in less financial endeavor. By bombarding these cultures they ergo migrate to first world nations where both sides are at odds.
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    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
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  12. #27
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    Update: the fascist lost bigly.

    Sad!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0830887 View Post
    I dunno man...Brexit was polling 60-40 as 'stay'. There's been a surprising number of 'silent embarassed' right-wing voters in recent politics. It looks reasonably safe, and let's hope Macron takes it.
    Brexit happened, not really because of the silent embarrased people but because of the lazy couch surfer people. The voter turnout was very low, most likely because everybody kept chanting about how bremain would win with a humge margin, so the huge margin stayed home that day, because "It doesn't matter if it wins by 51% or 95% and I have better things to do".

    Hopefully the French learned from that.
    Last edited by Elldallan; 08-05-2017 at 10:20.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    Everything I say is based in facts
    Yeah? What about -
    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    Throw in forcing countries to take millions of immigrants and of course it explodes.
    What part of "millions" is a fact?

    Quote Originally Posted by handofthrawn View Post
    Point is without the USA all of Europe would be speaking German. After ww2 without the USA you would be speaking Russian.
    Do the Germans and Russians speak English now or something?
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    Do the Germans and Russians speak English now or something?
    Yes... lol

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