Concerns About the Change to Sitting

[Selephant]

Is this change live yet?

[Korp]

One person being able to be offline is an out of game benefit.

You guys need help? One person sitting another account allows for better soldier bouncing. Oh but wait that is true with the current system too.

Next!

Kingdom needing lessp players to attend their duties are a out of game benefit? ****. What is this sorcery?

[Pillz]

Person A sets sitter overnight so his army can hit at 2am and he wont have to wake up. Person B stays up all night and makes his 2am hit, he doesnt get to sleep. The in game is the same, the out of game is the difference. Out of game benefit not in game.

Having another player play your province during hours when you're unavailable... that is in the 24hr sitting setting too.

Maybe person B is in another timezone, and not sacrificing anything to sit person A.

The RL time or convenience cost is not what we're measuring here. It is the in-game benefit (a province being available when it otherwise wouldn't be) and the price of that benefit in real world currency. You are very clearly paying for a feature that offers ingame benefits. 24-hour sitting cycle at least placed relative burden on the sitter, since they would in fact be responsible for two provinces for 24 hours. That DOES care a RL cost that can, potentially, offset the immediate benefit of not missing that 2am hit. There is a cost-benefit analysis to make on the 24-hour cycle. Namely, is it worthwhile to set sitter for 24 hours if you'll only miss one hit, because there may not be a sitter available who can reliably play those 24 hours.

If you can set sitting on an hourly basis, the potential for your sitter to be busy and miss hits or suffer personal inconvienence is no longer a factor. It also means that since sitting is limited to 21-RL days, you can now potentially use sitting a greater number of times over all for more situations.

Any kingdom willing to PAY for this feature is at an immediate advantage over a kingdom that does not. Activity is of the utmost importance. The change from a 24-hour to a 1-hour base for sitting multiples the advantages that can be derived from sitting.

Sitting was already, like the hostility meter, a pay2win feature. Now that has been amplified.

[Band of Horses]

Kingdom needing lessp players to attend their duties are a out of game benefit? ****. What is this sorcery?

What is your added IN GAME benefit from having less people, 13 people online playing 25 provinces vs having 25 people online playing 25 provinces? Taking twice as long to do full ops? (though we'd get oops message anyways lol)

[Pillz]

What is your added IN GAME benefit from having less people, 13 people online playing 25 provinces vs having 25 people online playing 25 provinces? Taking twice as long to do full ops? (though we'd get oops message anyways lol)

Youre moving goal posts here. It isn't about the benefit of 13 vs. 25. Its about the benefit of being able to have attacks/ops/actions made that would otherwise probably not get made without this feature change. You can't claim a KD derives no benefit from having fewer attacks missed because of the flexibility of sitting under these changes.

[Thunder TA]

Large provinces can also choose not to sleep. Or have a buddy system one sits another 24hrs straight stays awake the whole time, then the other does the same for both. We've all pulled all nighters before. You perceive this as an ingame benefit because you see out of game actions as a constant, which it is not.

Any cow player worth his salt doesnt sleep through ticks in the top wars, you do 1hr and 55 minute (59 if you're good ;)) sleep cycles to make sure other kd doesnt starve you etc. So i guess you have no tactical gameplay to beat them at all.... All you're doing is letting that player set sitter so he can sleep a full night which is an OUT OF GAME BENEFIT.

This benefit is even among all players to their out of game life, new or old. Since there is no in game benefit.

So you're still at 0 examples, waiting...

And your failing to get the fact that this benefits no one but a very few kds. The game has turn more to other aspects and features that benefit everyone instead of a few who wants ways that only benefit them.No one really cares if your cow has to be online or sat constantly in wars. Thats not something the game needs to implement features to help you do.

The game needs to fix opps messages,the game needs a internal chat feature that works,a internal intel for kingdoms,a internal guide.Many things are needed that would not only help new players since thats been thrown out every time some change comes up,but something that along with advertising might actually not only get new people but keep them.

Spending anytime on something that benefits basically only the ones working on it such as this is a waste and makes me wonder if i was wrong on how i figured Zauper would handle running the game.

[StratOcastle]

I thought this through: it's for the avians!

'FOAM! 'FOAM! FOAM!*

* you have to picture Kirk yelling at Khan. There is no gif.

It is top kingdom friendly, as Thunder points out. Objectively there are no in game benefits. Subjectively, if you're more active than 90% of the server, but don't have the benefit of that 10% being concentrated in your kingdom then this stinks for you. It stinks for me, but I embrace it as an element of challenge.

Edit: From the perspective of the devs it probably provides a feature they always wanted.
I want them to know I support their efforts. Maybe I can get guys interested in my kingdom to try sitting. I'm one of the dudes that buys credits.

Edit 2: The other shoe to drop would be the return of Fog.

[Korp]

What is your added IN GAME benefit from having less people, 13 people online playing 25 provinces vs having 25 people online playing 25 provinces? Taking twice as long to do full ops? (though we'd get oops message anyways lol)

So you are saying a kingdom that used to dxlog had no benefits at all from a kingdom that didnt xlog? So they were just cheating in vain.

[Band of Horses]

Maybe person B is in another timezone, and not sacrificing anything to sit person A.

The RL time or convenience cost is not what we're measuring here. It is the in-game benefit (a province being available when it otherwise wouldn't be) and the price of that benefit in real world currency. You are very clearly paying for a feature that offers ingame benefits. 24-hour sitting cycle at least placed relative burden on the sitter, since they would in fact be responsible for two provinces for 24 hours. That DOES care a RL cost that can, potentially, offset the immediate benefit of not missing that 2am hit. There is a cost-benefit analysis to make on the 24-hour cycle. Namely, is it worthwhile to set sitter for 24 hours if you'll only miss one hit, because there may not be a sitter available who can reliably play those 24 hours.

If you can set sitting on an hourly basis, the potential for your sitter to be busy and miss hits or suffer personal inconvienence is no longer a factor. It also means that since sitting is limited to 21-RL days, you can now potentially use sitting a greater number of times over all for more situations.

Any kingdom willing to PAY for this feature is at an immediate advantage over a kingdom that does not. Activity is of the utmost importance. The change from a 24-hour to a 1-hour base for sitting multiples the advantages that can be derived from sitting.

Sitting was already, like the hostility meter, a pay2win feature. Now that has been amplified.

You missed the point on the A vs B, it wasn't B sitting A. My fault for wording. It was same result, just one gave up one real world dollar the other gave up real world sleep for the same utopian effect.

It's not the difference for a province being available, that's you inferring a constant for out of game. People's real life constraints aren't in-game... Assuming they can't be there vs they don't want to be there is wrong.

The wording of it was that the minimum to take back over your province was reduced to 1 hour from 24 hours. That doesn't say that the setting of it is 1 day, and the cost of it is 1 day, and the 1 day comes from your 21 days. So you could use 21 hours and be out of sitting theoretically.

Any kingdom that pays for invites is paying 2 win! Any kingdom that uses 24hr sitting is paying 2 win. By your standards. So this new change isn't any new pay 2 win function.

[Band of Horses]

Youre moving goal posts here. It isn't about the benefit of 13 vs. 25. Its about the benefit of being able to have attacks/ops/actions made that would otherwise probably not get made without this feature change. You can't claim a KD derives no benefit from having fewer attacks missed because of the flexibility of sitting under these changes.

See the post I just made. (I realize this can get a bit confusing since I write a reply and you guys reply to a different post while I respond)

And your failing to get the fact that this benefits no one but a very few kds. The game has turn more to other aspects and features that benefit everyone instead of a few who wants ways that only benefit them.No one really cares if your cow has to be online or sat constantly in wars. Thats not something the game needs to implement features to help you do.

The game needs to fix opps messages,the game needs a internal chat feature that works,a internal intel for kingdoms,a internal guide.Many things are needed that would not only help new players since thats been thrown out every time some change comes up,but something that along with advertising might actually not only get new people but keep them.

Spending anytime on something that benefits basically only the ones working on it such as this is a waste and makes me wonder if i was wrong on how i figured Zauper would handle running the game.

Complete strawman argument. This isn't about if fixing the oops issue is more important that implementing a better sitting function such as 1 hr sitting. Still waiting for one example of ingame benefit.

So you are saying a kingdom that used to dxlog had no benefits at all from a kingdom that didnt xlog? So they were just cheating in vain.

If JayZ and David added a sitting function where the kingdom could force add sitting on a prov without them doing it, and one person could then drop 25 credits to control the entire kingdom for an hour, then I could see the comparison.

[StratOcastle]

How is activity signature traced insofar as recruitment page ascertained? Is it by province or by sitter?

I guess the duty here is to look for holes like we had with 24 hour respawning. There might be a benefit that hasn't occurred to someone yet, and I've only had one espresso today.

This should theoretically make my Virtual Kingdoms patented Elliptical Wave more impressive.

[Thunder TA]

BoH if Steel can't explain it any clearer for you I doubt anyone can . It's simple why it's flawed . If it's something you can benefit from then I'm sure you would like to have it and defend . May have even helped promote them the idea like Cat did with trading years ago but who knows . It benefits a very few and isn't needed . Already have a bugs thread where someone bought sitting and is complaining he can't cancel it after 3 hours .

[Pillz]

You missed the point on the A vs B, it wasn't B sitting A. My fault for wording. It was same result, just one gave up one real world dollar the other gave up real world sleep for the same utopian effect.

It's not the difference for a province being available, that's you inferring a constant for out of game. People's real life constraints aren't in-game... Assuming they can't be there vs they don't want to be there is wrong.

The wording of it was that the minimum to take back over your province was reduced to 1 hour from 24 hours. That doesn't say that the setting of it is 1 day, and the cost of it is 1 day, and the 1 day comes from your 21 days. So you could use 21 hours and be out of sitting theoretically.

Any kingdom that pays for invites is paying 2 win! Any kingdom that uses 24hr sitting is paying 2 win. By your standards. So this new change isn't any new pay 2 win function.

Has nothing to with can't vs. not wanting to be there. Has to do with the fact that now, whatever the case, that province can be there. That is a benefit to the kingdom. If you want feature that help people manage Uto and RL then there needs to be a balance. It's unfair for KD A to get extra uniques because they're willing to set sitters for individual hits while KD B is unwilling. Same issue as was always present with sitting, only now its amplified, and to such an extent I would say it is p2w.

Invites I'd dispute. You can always get players for free. You cant have someone make attacks for you for free.

[Band of Horses]

BoH if Steel can't explain it any clearer for you I doubt anyone can . It's simple why it's flawed . If it's something you can benefit from then I'm sure you would like to have it and defend . May have even helped promote them the idea like Cat did with trading years ago but who knows . It benefits a very few and isn't needed . Already have a bugs thread where someone bought sitting and is complaining he can't cancel it after 3 hours .

So you can't come up with an in game benefit. You attempted a strawman argument likely because you want to be outraged but can present a case because you don't understand. You're adding nothing to this discussion and only diluting an actual conversation.

Has nothing to with can't vs. not wanting to be there. Has to do with the fact that now, whatever the case, that province can be there. That is a benefit to the kingdom. If you want feature that help people manage Uto and RL then there needs to be a balance. It's unfair for KD A to get extra uniques because they're willing to set sitters for individual hits while KD B is unwilling. Same issue as was always present with sitting, only now its amplified, and to such an extent I would say it is p2w.

Invites I'd dispute. You can always get players for free. You cant have someone make attacks for you for free.

KD had the option to have all provinces show up for $0 and make their hits. That is not an unfair advantage. Every kingdom has the same options to be online and play the game. Paying does not give your province any added in game benefits compared to a province that spends $0 and is just online on their own. You don't get any extra gold, resources, or generals.

Invites aren't p2w in your mind? A player abandons a prov you can't fill it without an invite, thats p2w (to you).

[Coldhearted]

Let's be realistic here.
1st. X logging is easy and impossible to block.
2nd. This change will not effect any top competition what's so ever. Why, because your top tier forces sitting on anyone who messes up prep or says maybe I won't show.
3rd. It will help the honest to enjoy the game and get sleep. As I said x logging is so easy when average house hold has 3 ip addresses.
4th. Please stop crying, most of you who are crying no longer play competitively. So please get off the new owners nuts.
5th. Keep it up zuaper your a good guy and I appreciate you trying to save the game. Haters will hate but keep doing what's best for utopia. ;)