The New Guide - Are you kidding

[Kilim]

Its nice that there is more focus on general content to bring new players, and that the wiki will continue with the numbers that benefit the more experienced players(though i will take a copy of the important numbers since your second comment doesn't instill confidence that it will continue).

what i don't get - and not to bash - is the design, of the new guide to new players.
honestly its 2017 and that design(even with color theme) is horrible outdated and the UX is terrible.
and most importantly, its not resposnive. the menu doesn't work properly on tablets, mobiles etc and it doesn't scale to whats important for the user.

a site like that would take a few hours to make, and most importantly, if i did something like that at work, i would properly be fired.
I would be happy to help make it better if you want - i work as a Software consultant and you can find my email via my profile.

/Kilim

Edit: Ideas to make the guide better if i don't get the code myself :-P
1. make it bootstrap and make a new menu structure that works together with responsive design
2. Scalable text and content to fit different platforms
3. a new and better way to structure text and information to the user
4. less walls of text as that doesn't bring in new players
5. make the most important information close at hand(requires a new setup of the guide)
6. redo the entire design and bring in more graphical content(new players/young people today, is driven by grahical content)

[Drys]

One thing to keep in mind for all the folks criticizing the design --

If it were a flashy guide to lure people in, then they had the 1990s Uto interface, 99% would probably leave anyway. It might make sense for the guide design to mirror the in-game design, at least until the latter gets updated.

[Kilim]

It might make sense for the guide design to mirror the in-game design, at least until the latter gets updated.

Actually no. it makes no sense in neither business or personally to use time to develop something that is wrong, just because something else is also wrong.
to elaborate, if you have an old site or application and making something new to help it. then you design something new and release that, and then work on making the old site or application up to date.

you DON'T make something that is equally old and ugly to then update the game design, and then use time to update the new old and ugly guide. thats just a waste of time.
especially since the new guide(concept is nice to help new players) wont bring in new players as its technology is old, the design is old and bad, and there is no responsive design.

Remember if you want to bring in new players, you wont get that by having something that doesn't work on mobile platforms as thats where most new players would play utopia.

[Yadda9To5]

imho, the best investment for the game would be to hire an artist to get some fancy assets and a designer to get nice layout. It doesn't have to be much, utopia is a text based game, just some races/(spell) icons/backgrounds ;) It'd look more professional with some coherency. For example mtg provides fankits for users to build fansites with, it'd be nice if there were some shared assets and styleguide (used in the game, the guide, whatever third party things the devs let people make) for utopia as well. A uniform professional presentation is needed to make new people even look at the game. All the current improvements are nice for existing players, but something like spells on the throne page / flexible sitting / less bugs does not make a newbie sign up and stay.

But understanding that this guide has been made with nothing to work with, and work is done to improve the layout, it's ok. Unfortunately, for reasons mentioned above, i don't think it will be used, there are simply no players that need such a guide, they need the details from the wiki. I'd try to be more to the point, and expand on a topic later (and then just use the numbers from the wiki so the wiki won't be needed anymore). Right now it looks like the wiki but with numbers stripped away. Look at the original guide as an example https://web-beta.archive.org/web/200...0/utopia/help/ each section has a to the point description that is later elaborated on. The use of typography and colors make skimming pages to quickly get the info you look for easy.

[Goodwitch]

bootstrap is in the works

a lot of the strategy bits are taken out in the new edits(just woke up so not sure if they are live yet)

links to pertinent tables and information as well as strategy guides are in the planning stage

Thanks for all the feedback. We are reading and working on your suggestions as fast as we can, some of which was already in the works but just hasn't been implemented yet.

What we really need right now is original art. Any one feel industrious and want to make something?

[joeblogs]

imho, the best investment in the game would be to hire an artist to get some fancy assets and a designer to get nice layout. It doesn't have to be much, utopia is a text based game, just some races/(spell) icons/backgrounds ;) It'd look more professional with some coherency. For example mtg provides fankits for users to build fansites with, it'd be nice if there were some shared assets and styleguide (used in the game, the guide, whatever third party things the devs let people make) for utopia as well. A uniform professional presentation is needed to make new people even look at the game. All the current improvements are nice for existing players, but something like spells on the throne page / longer sitting / less bugs does not make a newbie sign up and stay.

Exactly. This is what my posts were trying to highlight about NEW players. The design is just so poor. I understand people invested time into this FREELY, but it doesn't mean it works. It's like a piece of writing you love and admire, just because it works for you doesn't make it the next great american novel.

Please just take a small amount of $$$ and have someone professionally design the site. Do not ask the community to design it. It is 2017....

[Sephi]

Actually I thought Yadda9To5 meant that we need a load of new icons and a colour scheme/font style without actually talking direct website design (as in menu, info boxes locations etc).

[Goodwitch]

this is my personal opinion , not that of the team or the devs...but Utopia is a community based game. What better way to highlight that than to work on a project with the community?

Sure if a professional designer made the site it would look professional..and just like any other game a run of the mill , cold description of functions.
What would be missing is the welcoming atmosphere, the shared knowledge coming from more experienced players , handed to the newer ones personally.

There is no reason why we cannot make this look up to date but yet original reflecting the spirit of Utopia if we all work together.
Easy? no..but doable and why take the fast road if you can enjoy the ride through the mountains and valleys experiencing the sights, smells and sounds along the way.

[joeblogs]

why take the fast road if you can enjoy the ride through the mountains and valleys experiencing the sights, smells and sounds along the way.

Because the game is dyeing, and you need new players.

[Yadda9To5]

Actually I thought Yadda9To5 meant that we need a load of new icons and a colour scheme/font style without actually talking direct website design (as in menu, info boxes locations etc).

I meant both, a design for the game, with some assets, and then let the community use that / build on that (there is this guide, there will be videos, there is an app, there is the a reddit) if all share a common style that shows professionalism, i think it's much easier to attract new players.

[joeblogs]

I meant both, a design for the game, with some assets, and then let the community use that / build on that (there is this guide, there will be videos, there is an app, there is the a reddit) if all share a common style that shows professionalism, i think it's much easier to attract new players.

Yes this is the right way.

Some ideas for the devs

1.) ask for help with design (formally) not just in this thread - do it in game with a link and welcome applications
2.) Start a crowdfunding campaign to pay for said design overhaul
3.) Don't bank on nostalgia to bring back old players - if it was down to nostalgia alone the game would not be consistently losing players.
4.) Make the in-game functionality more streamlined in terms of an integrated bot and chat functionality (don't force 3rd party options to make a KD work well or not)
5.) Advertise

This is simple development 101 for energizing any brand (know your market and appeal to it) don't flog a dead horse and say we should love it just because we play it.

[Goodwitch]

joeblogs, I will try to put this to you as politely as I can, your attitude here reflects exactly every negative thing ever said about millenials.
Before everyone gets in an uproar, I am not one of those millenial haters.(I don't even know if he is a millenial)

but all I see is:
-it's too much work
-it takes too long
-pay someone else cause I am too lazy

what I would like to see is the attitude of the hundreds of people that made the wiki what it is, painstakingly figuring out the formulas and putting them into tables.
-what needs done
-how can I help
-let's do this thing

[joeblogs]

I just see outdated thinking.

[Yadda9To5]

But utopia isn't a community effort, it's a commercial effort.

If it was opensource you could ask the others do do the heavy lifting. If it was opensource there would also have to be coordination (hell there would even be asking for gifts/investments to pay for the things no one (reasonably) can (like currently the issue of (graphic)design)). Currently neither is true, what you are proposing is a (admittedly well intended) pipe-dream. You just can't make a soup of good intentions and hope something tasty comes out of it.

It's not simply the negativism to notice certain things are needed to be done. No one faults anyone that things go slow cause it's much hard work, no one finds anyone lazy, people do the best they can, you can't ask more. It's just that people realize having the community solve everything is impossible.

[Goodwitch]

But utopia isn't a community effort, it's a commercial effort.

If it was opensource you could ask the others do do the heavy lifting. If it was opensource there would also be coordination. Currently neither is true, what you are proposing is a (admittedly well intended) pipe-dream. You just can't make a soup of good intentions and hope something tasty comes out of it.

I hope to prove you wrong.

I refuse to believe that there aren't still people out there that thrive on the challenge to form and shape the future of Utopia. Matter of fact that it what makes Utopia different and what has all these players coming back time after time.
Other games give you cookie cutter run off the mill puzzle pieces to put together into a predestined shape and outcome. Utopia as a whole is shaped and formed by the community.