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Thread: Age 72 races and personalities

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    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Age 72 races and personalities

    Races

    Avian
    -30% Attack travel time
    +100% Birth Rate

    -15% Combat Gains
    -15% Enemy's losses(on attack and def)

    Spell book: Greater Protection
    Elite: 11/2, 725gc, 10NW


    Dwarf
    +20% Building Efficiency
    Free Building Construction
    -50% Building Construction Time
    Can Train Elites with Credits(1 elite costs 3 credits)

    No access to specs
    Can't use Accelerated Construction
    Doesn't earn building credits
    +200% thief cost(1500 total)

    Spell book: Mystic Aura, Fog
    Elite: 9/7, 850gc, 11NW


    Elf
    +2 Defensive Specialist strength
    +40% Spell Success (WPA)
    -35% Spell cost
    Wizards do not die on failed spells

    -15% TPA
    +25% Military Wages

    Spell book: Pitfalls, Invisibility, Fools' Gold
    Elite: 8/6, 950gc, 9.75NW

    Faery
    +50% Combat Instant Spell Damage
    +50% Sabotage Operation Damage
    +50% Spell duration

    -1 General
    -50% Birth rate
    -10% Population

    Spell book: All Racial Spells and Tree of Gold
    Elite:7/10, 1150gc, 11.75NW


    Halfling
    +20% Population
    +30% Thievery Operation Success (TPA)
    -50% Thief cost

    -5% Building Efficiency
    -10% Income

    Spell book: Aggression, Mages Fury
    Elite: 7/7, 550gc, 8NW


    Human
    +25% Income
    +50% Rune production
    +100% Food production

    -15% Spell Success
    +25% Enemy's instant spell dmg
    +25% Enemy's sabotage dmg

    Spell book: Quick Feet
    Elite: 10/5, 1000gc, 10.5NW


    Orc
    +25% Battle Gains
    +20% Enemy casualties when attacking

    -1 Offensive Specialist strength
    -1 Defensive Specialist strength

    Spell book: Reflect Magic
    Elite: 13/1, 1050gc, 11.25NW


    Undead
    -50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
    Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
    -75% Food Required
    Successful land attacks convert Offensive Specialists into Elites(conversion rate increased to 30%)
    Defensive losses automatically convert to soldiers(Permanent Animate Dead)

    Basic Thievery (Intel Operations Only)
    No Elite Training

    Spell book: Town Watch
    Elite: 14/3, 11.5NW


    Personalities

    The Cleric
    -35% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
    -35% Enemy's instant spell dmg
    -35% Enemy's sabotage dmg

    Access to Animate Dead
    Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits

    The Heretic
    Failed spells don't cost mana
    Thieves do not die on failed operations
    Successful spell casts get 35% of rune cost refunded
    +20% Magic and Thievery Science Effectiveness.

    Access to Nightmares and Blizzard
    Starts with +200 Wizards and +200 thieves


    The Mystic
    All Guilds are 100% more effective
    Protects 50% of the wizards from AW
    +1 mana per tick in war
    +75% Magic Science Effectiveness
    Access to all offensive spells including 2 unique: Meteor Showers, Chastity
    Starts with +300 Wizards


    The Rogue
    Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
    Thieves Dens are 50% more effective
    +1 stealth per tick
    +50% Thievery Science Effectiveness
    Access to Gluttony
    Starts with +300 thieves


    The Sage
    Protect 50% of scientists on abduct attack
    Scientists are 50% more effective
    Access to Amnesia
    Starts with 25% extra scientists
    Increase base Scientist spawn rate by 35%


    The Tactician
    +1 General
    Protect 35% of the land on trad marches and conqs
    Access to War Spoils
    Starts with +100 land and +100 building credits


    The Warrior
    +1 Offensive Specialist strength
    +1 Defensive Specialist strength
    +2/2 Elite
    Access to Fanaticism
    Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits


    The War Hero
    -75% training time
    +20% Military Efficiency(both off and def)
    Access to Clear Sight, Reflect Magic
    Starts with 800 elites

    Spells and Ops
    Fog - increases enemy's losses when attacked by 15%. Low duration spell.
    AW - Max. dmg reduced to 0.8%


    Notes
    I'm removing all immunizations(except unds plague). I also am attempting to put more diversity in bonuses, penalties and spell book.

    I know there is going to be overhaul of the sci system so I'm not going to suggest anything about it(because of that I didn't put reve anywhere).

    Und is too strong for the last couple of ages so I decided to significantly nerf it.
    Dwarves are born elite so they don't need specs ;).

    Heretics don't lose mana on failed spells but they still cost runes so I find it balanced.
    Last edited by Bo To; 03-05-2017 at 15:07.

  2. #2
    Forum Fanatic Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    Heretics don't lose mana on failed spells but they still cost runes so I find it balanced.
    That seems massively broken, lets have warriors be able to reuse troops and generals from failed attack but still get losses... seems balanced right?
    Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    The cost of failed attacks is not the same as the cost of spells. You can't cast a spell if you don't have the full amount of runes required compared with attacks where you can attack with less to do lesser dmg. The whole idea was to make stockpiling more dangerous and early war resource control more important than it is now.

    Would you like to put an example of being broken and exploitable?
    Last edited by Bo To; 03-05-2017 at 15:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    Would you like to put an example of being broken and exploitable?
    Hmm, seems like it would be trivial to put MS on enemy TMs/banks as long as you have enough runes for example?

    How does that make stockpiling more dangerous btw, or did you mean more dangerous for the other kingdom? ;)

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    Personally we need to go back to the old numbers. These inflated numbers are just lame and detracts from the game. I understand why they did it as a hail marry to get more interest in the game. Go back to specs 4/4 and have elites in the 5 to 8 value again. Also I find heretic has made war stale, making every war the same strategy if you decide to run heavy heretics. Also undead conversion is broken, fix it or better yet just get rid of it. Getting hit for two acres to converting thousands of off specs is just dumb. For the person being bottom fed on losing tons of troops.

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    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyB View Post
    Hmm, seems like it would be trivial to put MS on enemy TMs/banks as long as you have enough runes for example?

    How does that make stockpiling more dangerous btw, or did you mean more dangerous for the other kingdom? ;)
    Heretics don't have access to MS. You can run heavy NM waves and probably that is your concern but again having heretic with rune supply would make it more dangerous than attacker with 300 opa(SW might actually become useful). I'm trying to put some more diversity than straight off or immunizations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearted View Post
    Personally we need to go back to the old numbers. These inflated numbers are just lame and detracts from the game. I understand why they did it as a hail marry to get more interest in the game. Go back to specs 4/4 and have elites in the 5 to 8 value again.

    I would like to go back to the old numbers as well, with an added twist -- remove +X from specs and remove +WPA/TPA bonuses. If it becomes harder to specialize in multiple areas (i.e., wizards, thievery, offense, defense), this may make other aspects of personalities shine. It should really be a choice with opportunity cost to go with high thieves or high offense. It shouldn't be "I can have high TPA, high defense, and still have offense" or "I can have high offense, high TPA, and reasonable defense"

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    Forum Fanatic Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    The cost of failed attacks is not the same as the cost of spells. You can't cast a spell if you don't have the full amount of runes required compared with attacks where you can attack with less to do lesser dmg. The whole idea was to make stockpiling more dangerous and early war resource control more important than it is now.

    Would you like to put an example of being broken and exploitable?
    Yes I do think that only charging mana for successful spells are broken. Mana exists to put a hard cap on how many spells you can cast, circumventing it is a bad idea imo.
    With OOW stealing etc it's usually not that hard to find runes, esp if you have small chained provinces who can steal from inactive ghettos etc.

    Plus your change will make chaining heretics down counterproductive(because you just have a bigger TM foot their now incredibly cheap spell costs).
    Or you just run a 400a Heretic with insane wpa right from the start to FB(because FB ignores relative size for calculating damage) the **** out of opponent's TM's etc.
    A sacrificial pawn like that would be well worth it for the gain it provides, and you'd have to spend an inordinate number of resources on disabling it in war because of the relative sizes.

    It's comparable because mana exists to put a hard cap on how many spells you can cast and generals serve the same purpose.
    So yeah the correct comparison would be that you can reuse generals infinitely as long as the attack fails and 35% of troops on successful attacks are instantly available again.

    Also I don't think Mystic should have a bonus that protects it form something that's essentially in the game to counter them, namely AW.
    Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Forum Fanatic Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearted View Post
    Personally we need to go back to the old numbers. These inflated numbers are just lame and detracts from the game. I understand why they did it as a hail marry to get more interest in the game. Go back to specs 4/4 and have elites in the 5 to 8 value again.
    No they did it to make tweaking numbers easier and make it possible to tweak numbers in smaller increments. +1 specs means less on a 6 point spec than it does on a 4 point spec. The larger numbers have zero impact on the game, they just make it easier to balance racial bonuses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coldhearted View Post
    Undead conversion is broken, fix it or better yet just get rid of it. Getting hit for two acres to converting thousands of off specs is just dumb. For the person being bottom fed on losing tons of troops.
    I don't play undead but if the conversions aren't modified by relative kd/prov nw then yes that needs to be fixed, conversions should be closely tied to making meaningful gains.
    Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  10. #10
    Moderator umajon911's Avatar
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    Again you made Orc a crappy choice to play. You actually reduced their elite defensive value... I no likey...
    “The only person you are destined to become is the person you decide to be.”
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    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elldallan View Post
    Yes I do think that only charging mana for successful spells are broken. Mana exists to put a hard cap on how many spells you can cast, circumventing it is a bad idea imo.
    With OOW stealing etc it's usually not that hard to find runes, esp if you have small chained provinces who can steal from inactive ghettos etc.

    Plus your change will make chaining heretics down counterproductive(because you just have a bigger TM foot their now incredibly cheap spell costs).
    Or you just run a 400a Heretic with insane wpa right from the start to FB(because FB ignores relative size for calculating damage) the **** out of opponent's TM's etc.
    A sacrificial pawn like that would be well worth it for the gain it provides, and you'd have to spend an inordinate number of resources on disabling it in war because of the relative sizes.

    It's comparable because mana exists to put a hard cap on how many spells you can cast and generals serve the same purpose.
    So yeah the correct comparison would be that you can reuse generals infinitely as long as the attack fails and 35% of troops on successful attacks are instantly available again.

    Also I don't think Mystic should have a bonus that protects it form something that's essentially in the game to counter them, namely AW.
    Thievery is not magic and magic is not attacking. They are completely different things.

    Before I put this suggestion out I thought about the possibilities of chaining a heretic and becoming extremely strong which means to deal with heretic one must find another way than obvious chaining. That was my goal. To make the game more diverse. As I said the most effective way to deal with heretic would be to use SW which is the least used op in the game.

    About AW I take that note but there is also another way to kill wizz - massacre.


    Quote Originally Posted by umajon911 View Post
    Again you made Orc a crappy choice to play. You actually reduced their elite defensive value... I no likey...
    My idea was to make persos more impactful. Orc/warr would have 15/3 elite which is decent. Also orcs have access to anon so if ambush is your concern there is a solution.

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    Spell failure not costing mana seems broken. +50% sci effectiveness on sage is probably too much. Dwarves not having access to specs would be horribad and that thief cost would not help. Agree mystic shouldn't have AW protection when it is their main counter, and they can recover wpa more easily than heretics (the other likely AW target) to begin with. +2/2 elite could be an issue on a couple races.

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    Forum Fanatic Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    Thievery is not magic and magic is not attacking. They are completely different things.
    This would seem obvious, but the comparison still stands to show why something is broken. And personally I think that fails not consuming mana is very broken, it completely messes with all the current mechanisms of how magic works and not in a good way imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    Before I put this suggestion out I thought about the possibilities of chaining a heretic and becoming extremely strong which means to deal with heretic one must find another way than obvious chaining. That was my goal. To make the game more diverse. As I said the most effective way to deal with heretic would be to use SW which is the least used op in the game.
    Well there's good diversity and bad diversity, this is the latter.
    I could suggest that Dwarf gets a 25/25 elite for 1k gc/elite and call it divere. But that doesn't mean that it should be implemented because it would quite obviously be broken.
    If you want to give heretic that bonus then you have to balance it by also giving Heretic a completely crippling weakness to weigh up for how broken that is like, something like -80% tpa or perhaps +200-300% rune costs and the inability to build towers or -50% tower eff, so that essentially somebody else would have to cover the costs of casting, meaning that TB will eventually become a limiter and you'll be a strain on kd resources meaning that you can't run half a kingdom of heretics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    About AW I take that note but there is also another way to kill wizz - massacre.
    Of course, but AW is there to kill wizards and giving the biggest wizard hog protection from said op seems like a bad idea, if AW is overpowered then nerf it, don't give mystics protection from it.
    Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  14. #14
    Moderator umajon911's Avatar
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    Oh I dont like heretic losing runes instead of mana on failed ops. In general, rune production is already hard enough as it is now.
    “The only person you are destined to become is the person you decide to be.”
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    I just hope humans stay a bit mediocre, not suddenly like the new avians or something. Hmmf humans arent star attackers anyways, and probably get no free elite credits i guess.

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