Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 42 of 42

Thread: Elf/heretic

  1. #31
    Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by s0830887 View Post
    What thief is useful if they can't prop or AW? Ns and riots can be done by anyone with 7-8mtpa
    I def disagree resource steals are big too, and prop overrated

  2. #32
    Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    91
    Y'all talking bout cs being op. Which is probably true. Which is also why I'd just wait till you log off an have a mystic mv it off you before the aw or whatever run.

    Can't be op if it ain't there.
    Monarch Bad JuJu age 68

    #badjuju
    #vivalakandis
    #gombe

  3. #33
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Chile
    Posts
    530
    Quote Originally Posted by Relswick8619 View Post
    I def disagree resource steals are big too, and prop overrated
    Any proper thief should be able to do the thief-specific ops - AW and Prop, the power ops. They're the 'NM/MS' of thievery. I don't see why you would choose to hamper your thievery by reducing yourself to secondary ops that others can do instead.
    Josh; leader of a lovable band of misfits, Pinoys, and probable virgins.

    My Raging Clue

    *If a Utopian falls in the woods, and no-one is around to see him...was he still bottom-feeding?

  4. #34
    Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    91
    Prop isn't overrated. There's a reason they didn't give it to heretic like they had in initial changes. It would've been op.
    Monarch Bad JuJu age 68

    #badjuju
    #vivalakandis
    #gombe

  5. #35
    Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyJoe View Post
    Prop isn't overrated. There's a reason they didn't give it to heretic like they had in initial changes. It would've been op.
    It's way too random and Wastes stealth at times. Anyway in my kingdom we have a rogue dedicated to aw and we need someone for greed, riots, ns, nm chains, resource steal for aid/dragon/mage control, fbs primarily spells on hitters and rogue and those ops on hitters and mages. So I was able to do that with 1 prov, plus some attacking. Like I said elf slightly better cause of attacking but would say half is 2nd best heretic and better for role I needed.

  6. #36
    Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by s0830887 View Post
    Any proper thief should be able to do the thief-specific ops - AW and Prop, the power ops. They're the 'NM/MS' of thievery. I don't see why you would choose to hamper your thievery by reducing yourself to secondary ops that others can do instead.
    Also our others can only semi do it we mainly run very pure hitters. Anyway with the extra stealth and op dmg will make good rogue and I worry more about stopping hitters then mages tho I can still do some with rune steals.

  7. #37
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,229
    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyJoe View Post
    Y'all talking bout cs being op. Which is probably true. Which is also why I'd just wait till you log off an have a mystic mv it off you before the aw or whatever run.

    Can't be op if it ain't there.
    True but removing CS from elf/m/h is not easy.

  8. #38
    Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    True but removing CS from elf/m/h is not easy.
    Yea might be tougher on another mystic but shouldn't be a problem for an elf mystic to mv an elf heretic. And since the op is about elf heretic, I would still say mv'ing the cs off them and then aw or prop runs ftw win.
    Monarch Bad JuJu age 68

    #badjuju
    #vivalakandis
    #gombe

  9. #39
    Post Fiend
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    121
    If you are running TDs on a heretic, you are doing it wrong. Heretics should also pretty much never rely on their mtpa for thief defense. Halfer rogues will eat you alive all day every day. Last age I had to run 35%+ wts to give myself a shot at surviving the first 24 hours of war. CS is a GREAT addition to elves and will allow a lot more build variation this age. CS is op and, coupled with 20% wts, will provide solid thief defense during war.

    Of course elf mystics will be able to MV cs off an elf heretic. Probably not on the first attempt though. Elf/heretic is a jack of all trades and a master of none. You aren't the best at anything, but you are good at a lot of stuff. You open chains via NM/NS and attacking, good at resource management during war and are capable of turning into an Econ machine a couple days into war. Once you realize the limitations of the combo, then you can take advantage of the strengths of it.
    Last edited by HerpNDerp; 22-05-2017 at 18:18.

  10. #40
    Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by HerpNDerp View Post
    If you are running TDs on a heretic, you are doing it wrong. Heretics should also pretty much never rely on their mtpa for thief defense. Halfer rogues will eat you alive all day every day. Last age I had to run 35%+ wts to give myself a shot at surviving the first 24 hours of war. CS is a GREAT addition to elves and will allow a lot more build variation this age. CS is op and, coupled with 20% wts, will provide solid thief defense during war.

    Of course elf mystics will be able to MV cs off an elf heretic. Probably not on the first attempt though. Elf/heretic is a jack of all trades and a master of none. You aren't the best at anything, but you are good at a lot of stuff. You open chains via NM/NS and attacking, good at resource management during war and are capable of turning into an Econ machine a couple days into war. Once you realize the limitations of the combo, then you can take advantage of the strengths of it.
    With thief sci nerfed some I think a half heretic can hold up enough on the thief side, and me personally ive always believed in using majority of steal on a thief on hitters tho of course some on mages. Aw is pretty good but I would rather a rogue aw a mage then disable a hitter in the various ways they do. Yes u can win wars with tms but in most wars hitters still carry the day and an elf heretic or half heretic should be really good at hitter control. I'll prolly get flamed some for this post but o well I've fought in plenty of wars too and while I fear chains even tho it's fun to try to hold it I don't fear anything from a rogue or mage more then annoyance. If I was a mage only I would fear rogues some, but I'm not a mage only and even after aw can spell hitters who is I want to spell anyway mostly

  11. #41
    Post Fiend
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by Relswick8619 View Post
    With thief sci nerfed some I think a half heretic can hold up enough on the thief side, and me personally ive always believed in using majority of steal on a thief on hitters tho of course some on mages. Aw is pretty good but I would rather a rogue aw a mage then disable a hitter in the various ways they do. Yes u can win wars with tms but in most wars hitters still carry the day and an elf heretic or half heretic should be really good at hitter control. I'll prolly get flamed some for this post but o well I've fought in plenty of wars too and while I fear chains even tho it's fun to try to hold it I don't fear anything from a rogue or mage more then annoyance. If I was a mage only I would fear rogues some, but I'm not a mage only and even after aw can spell hitters who is I want to spell anyway mostly
    A good war kingdom will have separation of duties. If your halfer rogues are having to ns/prop attackers, you are probably going to lose. If you are relying on heretics to do anything other than ns/riot/steal resources, then you should re-evaluate your race/personality combos and pick something better suited to your needs. You are correct: heavy hitters rule in war time. Every good war kingdom will do everything it can to drop the enemy's top MOs so that your TMs become UB (unbreakable). Heretics are great at controlling enemy heavy hitters: steal their war horses when their army returns, keep riots up to limit income, NS the crap out of a prov before you chain it, etc etc. They also play the role of econ control via FBs/greed/storms/etc and can be used to ET the enemy's potent halfer/rogues. It is a balancing act. If you aren't afraid of enemy halfer/rogues as a heretic, then you haven't played against a coordinated kingdom with good rogues. There is not very much an enemy can do to a heretic that is worse than GA WTs followed by x30 prop and x20 AW. My only point is you *should not* ever rely on mtpa as a defense against thievery. It will end very badly for you if your enemy is decent :P

  12. #42
    Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by HerpNDerp View Post
    A good war kingdom will have separation of duties. If your halfer rogues are having to ns/prop attackers, you are probably going to lose. If you are relying on heretics to do anything other than ns/riot/steal resources, then you should re-evaluate your race/personality combos and pick something better suited to your needs. You are correct: heavy hitters rule in war time. Every good war kingdom will do everything it can to drop the enemy's top MOs so that your TMs become UB (unbreakable). Heretics are great at controlling enemy heavy hitters: steal their war horses when their army returns, keep riots up to limit income, NS the crap out of a prov before you chain it, etc etc. They also play the role of econ control via FBs/greed/storms/etc and can be used to ET the enemy's potent halfer/rogues. It is a balancing act. If you aren't afraid of enemy halfer/rogues as a heretic, then you haven't played against a coordinated kingdom with good rogues. There is not very much an enemy can do to a heretic that is worse than GA WTs followed by x30 prop and x20 AW. My only point is you *should not* ever rely on mtpa as a defense against thievery. It will end very badly for you if your enemy is decent :P
    Agreed which why as heretic I handle ns riots and steals along with fbs and nms, the 2 rogues have aw and prop duties. I should also add it's betterrible they aw me then our ms guy, so my spell work prolly may take a hit early in war but it prolongs the mystics wiz life for more ms. We actually lost an ms person and still need ns riot steal person so I may go faery heretic, that way I got cs and invis plus ms and so on
    Last edited by Relswick8619; 22-05-2017 at 23:26.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •