Can we talk about IP blocks?

[chadde]

I know this has been up quite a few times in the past, but I would like to have a discussion with the new people in charge about IP blocks and the no longer existing whitelist.

So, I play in the same kingdom as my wife. We have recently recruited her sister as well (we want more players, right?) and now it's starting to get annoying working around the constant IP blocks in war.

There must be a better way to determine if people are one and the same than just using the IP address? I know people who play from their work, school etc also have this problem and it doesn't seem to be an issue with any other game in the world?

1. Is there still a big enough problem with multis to warrant making the game harder for some of the players?
2. Why was the whitelist removed? If someone can provide proof of a real life relationship, why not unblock them?
3. Why not block based on devices instead? Most people play on their own phone/computer I would imagine.

[CannaWhoopazz]

Your sister in law lives with you?

[chadde]

Your sister in law lives with you?

No, sorry that wasn't a very clear statement.

She actually lives on the same street as us, and in our efforts in trying to help her learn the game she's been coming over to our place so we can show her how to calculate attacks and what all the different numbers do. And the second she entered our house with her laptop she is on our IP, and that **** stays with you. So even when she goes home and wants to attack she's still blocked from doing so.

Also, if people want to multi, how hard would it be to do so using a proxy or vpn? Don't most people have them these days anyway?

[CannaWhoopazz]

No, sorry that wasn't a very clear statement.

She actually lives on the same street as us, and in our efforts in trying to help her learn the game she's been coming over to our place so we can show her how to calculate attacks and what all the different numbers do. And the second she entered our house with her laptop she is on our IP, and that **** stays with you. So even when she goes home and wants to attack she's still blocked from doing so.

Also, if people want to multi, how hard would it be to do so using a proxy or vpn? Don't most people have them these days anyway?

I wasn't judging, it's not my business! lol

Utopia has [had..?] a proxy detector, it's not perfect, but it catches the non-complex ones fairly well. Multies are still a slight problem, mostly at OOP when people are starved for gold and targets. I do agree that it sucks that roommates can't play together though. No idea what kind of solution is available that would stop multies but allow roommates from playing though...

[chadde]

I wasn't judging, it's not my business! lol

Utopia has [had..?] a proxy detector, it's not perfect, but it catches the non-complex ones fairly well. Multies are still a slight problem, mostly at OOP when people are starved for gold and targets. I do agree that it sucks that roommates can't play together though. No idea what kind of solution is available that would stop multies but allow roommates from playing though...

Well I would argue some basic back-end logic could determine if someone is not a multi. You could for example keep the IP block with the addition that if two blocked provinces are online at the same time from different IPs they could be flagged as non-multis and future blocks lifted.

Or something. I don't know, it can just be really crippling. In our kd we have two couples + one sister in law and two roommates. That's 6 provinces that constantly have to work around this in war and it's starting to feel like a serious disadvantage.

[Elldallan]

Well I would argue some basic back-end logic could determine if someone is not a multi. You could for example keep the IP block with the addition that if two blocked provinces are online at the same time from different IPs they could be flagged as non-multis and future blocks lifted.

That's not a very good determinator as to whether somebody is a multi or not, it's fairly easy to log in at the same time even if you're a multi.

Or something. I don't know, it can just be really crippling. In our kd we have two couples + one sister in law and two roommates. That's 6 provinces that constantly have to work around this in war and it's starting to feel like a serious disadvantage.

It's supposed to be fairly crippling to discourage multies, but I do agree that the devs should probably implement some sort of whitelist.

[Korp]

How do you determine that there is two people though or 3 and what stops you from abusing it?

[Palem]

I'll play devil's advocate.

1. Is there still a big enough problem with multis to warrant making the game harder for some of the players?

It could be argued that the reason multis are such a nonexistent problem is precisely because of the stringent efforts to stop it.

2. Why was the whitelist removed? If someone can provide proof of a real life relationship, why not unblock them?

The white list was removed (imo) because you basically just had to ask permission to multi. "Proving" that you are two people to the devs over the internet isn't too terribly difficult.

3. Why not block based on devices instead? Most people play on their own phone/computer I would imagine.

Off the top of my head I have about 7 or 8 devices that I could reliably play utopia from. Think about college kids that have access to not just one computer lab, but multiple computer labs.

I think the problem here is that you're an honest person that just can't put himself into the shoes of someone that wants to and is trying to cheat.

[Goodwitch]

He does have a point though. To me this is a lot like making super glue a controlled substance because some kids like to sniff it.

Why not limit it to 2 or 3 players per IP except for colleges and other institutions where many share the same IP involuntarily working with a white list? Will there be the possibility of abuse? sure. But if you keep track of who is asking to be whitelisted on which IP it shouldn't be that big of a problem.
If I wanted to I could easily multi(I don't, I promise). Not gonna go into detail but it refers to owning several devices and friendly neighbors.
There is also the capability of having a non player create an account and setting sitters.
So why limit the honest players recruiting new Utopians from their families and friends if the ones that want to cheat can already do so?

[Palem]

For the same reason that governments actively try to make sure citizens don't murder each other despite the fact that some citizens are going to murder each other.

Having the attitude of "well people are gonna cheat, so screw it" only leads to rampant cheating and it destroys the environment that the honest people wanted to play in, do they leave.

[Akkadian/Taylor]

It should be quite simple to determine when those ips are shared, though. I recruited a co-worker. We share IPs at work, but that's all. So, basically from 7am-6pm on weekdays we may have a common IP. Any time before or after that, we have our own ip. But we also both travel a lot for work during those times, so its not even every day/all day every day that we share IPs. Maybe occasional weekends when we come into the office on weekends, but its not often that we are both here at the same time.

So why can't the game look at this in more detail? i.e. look at the common patterns and determine that we are, in fact, two separate and distinct people and players. I think the people in my kingdom would attest to that, too. Rather than preventing me from sending aid to that person, or be able to chain the same prov in war?

I haven't complained because I agree there certainly is potential for abuse and a lot of losers on here would do that. But, it would be nice to not have to watch hits to make sure we can hit certain targets and to not have to use a straw man for aid. It is extremely inconvenient.

[Palem]

I'm not saying the current system is perfect and shouldn't be improved on, I'm just saying I don't think a white list is a very good system to do what people want to do (at least on it's own)

[Korp]

He does have a point though. To me this is a lot like making super glue a controlled substance because some kids like to sniff it.

Why not limit it to 2 or 3 players per IP except for colleges and other institutions where many share the same IP involuntarily working with a white list? Will there be the possibility of abuse? sure. But if you keep track of who is asking to be whitelisted on which IP it shouldn't be that big of a problem.
If I wanted to I could easily multi(I don't, I promise). Not gonna go into detail but it refers to owning several devices and friendly neighbors.
There is also the capability of having a non player create an account and setting sitters.
So why limit the honest players recruiting new Utopians from their families and friends if the ones that want to cheat can already do so?

Why have laws at all, I mean, people that want to commit crimes will still do it!

[Panthira]

I have 2 family members who play in my kingdom. It's a challenge, and we are constantly aware not to touch the same provinces. It stinks.

I would not be opposed to some credit card verification system, tho with ppl without cc's it does pose a problem. The site would have to get more secure first though?

[MyNameIsMatija]

Just don't cheat. You sAD?