Can we talk about IP blocks?

[Bishop]

Are you saying it's hard to dupe the current one? Anyone who wants to cheat can easily do so by using a proxy. And you're still thinking about this the wrong way.. We want to get a lot of new players, right? Hence the new guide, new art work etc. These new players can't be expected to come in knowing about the huge multi problem we had 15 years ago and how the game backend works. They just want to play a game - showing them error messages saying they're blocked is a good way to ensure they won't be coming back.

Instead of assuming everyone is a 1337 blackhat cheatorz we should want to build a game with good UI/UX that people can easily get in to. THEN we deal with cheaters. And this can be done by identifying login patterns and IPs rather than blanket blocking anyone who plays from someone else's IP once.

It's not a blanket block.

A lot of people try to cheat using proxies, but they are easy to detect.

[Bishop]

1. Well that's hard to know.

2. What about making people prove it? Or use credit cards to verify like someone suggested. Also, it would be pretty easy to monitor the "multis" and see when they change IPs, go to work at separate locations. Most people have an easily recognizable pattern in their everyday life. It shouldn't be hard to figure out who's legit and who's not.

3. Yeah the device block was stupid, I take it back.

4. Should I, as an honest average player, have to put myself into the shoes of a cheater to be able to play with my friends and family?

Credit cards? What help would that be from deterring multies?

[Exxo]

Credit cards? What help would that be from deterring multies?

Don't really know.. wouldn't it? After all, that's what the other gamedev companies seem to be using, if I'm not mistaken? Obviously not an expert on this stuff myself, so that's genuine wondering, not trolling.

I just find it strange that a text-based game with 3k active users has stricter anti-cheating regulations than pretty much any other multi-player game out there.

[octobrev]

One of many free credit card generators

[Exxo]

One of many free credit card generators

Would those pass the test of trying to charge $1? Also, I'm not sure about this statement:

A lot of people try to cheat using proxies, but they are easy to detect.

Are we talking about free proxies? Then yea, sure. But is it also easy to check a paid one? Again, not a pro on web protocols or anything, but it seems to me an ssh tunnel with proper security settings should be pretty impossible to detect.

[octobrev]

Nah the payment wouldn't go through unless the generated values happen to match a real card. They will pass any verification steps prior to that though.

[Palem]

Are we talking about free proxies? Then yea, sure. But is it also easy to check a paid one? Again, not a pro on web protocols or anything, but it seems to me an ssh tunnel with proper security settings should be pretty impossible to detect.

If he answers this question he either:
1. Confirms that paid proxies are a way to cheat.
2. Tips his hand and people that would have been caught cheating will seek other means.

Tldr: no way he's answering that question lol

[octobrev]

There are different types of proxies. "Invisible" is the variety that should mask what it is, along with a lot of the "elite" ones. Here's an example of a super bad one: http://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/85.17.24.76

Notice this area in particular: Services:Network sharing device or proxy server

Disclaimer: This is by no means to be perceived as supporting, enforcing, or teaching people to cheat. It is simply a statement of fact.

[Exxo]

If he answers this question he either:
1. Confirms that paid proxies are a way to cheat.
2. Tips his hand and people that would have been caught cheating will seek other means.

Tldr: no way he's answering that question lol

*grins at Palem* Well put. But seriously, come on.. I'd estimate that we're mostly a bunch of old(ish) geezers here, who started playing this game in their teens and are now in their 30s. Am fairly sure that if someone wanted to cheat real bad, they'd be able to do it undetected, with minor financial expenses and huge expenses of time (which likely would be the limiting factor). The current system, at a guess, is sufficient to detect cases like when someone gets drunk and then does something stupid like creating another province. Is that worth all the hassle that it creates for people from the same household? Could, for example, instead go with that $1 charge to link a valid credit card to an account upon creation. One account for one CC. Or something along these lines..

[Bishop]

Don't really know.. wouldn't it? After all, that's what the other gamedev companies seem to be using, if I'm not mistaken? Obviously not an expert on this stuff myself, so that's genuine wondering, not trolling.

I just find it strange that a text-based game with 3k active users has stricter anti-cheating regulations than pretty much any other multi-player game out there.

What other games use a credit card as proof an account isn't being xlogged? Having a credit cards means that you have access to a credit card, that's it. I have 4, can I have 4 accounts?

We have strict anticheat rules because some players cheat a lot.

[Exxo]

What other games use a credit card as proof an account isn't being xlogged?

Mm, not really as a proof of not being xlogged, more like the general "we link an account to its owner through a credit card". World of Warcraft, World of Tanks maybe? Or maybe not. Yeah, I do agree that the circumstances are very different. But it does make me sad that I can't play with my gf in the same kingdom without a host of restrictions or setting up something that violates the ToS.

[Palem]

Well to be fair, you could play in separate kingdoms and face basically no restrictions except in the odd case where the two of you try to target the same province within 24 hours from different kingdoms.

Yes, that's much less alluring and I understand why some people wouldn't want to do so, but it's always an option

[Bishop]

Mm, not really as a proof of not being xlogged, more like the general "we link an account to its owner through a credit card". World of Warcraft, World of Tanks maybe? Or maybe not. Yeah, I do agree that the circumstances are very different. But it does make me sad that I can't play with my gf in the same kingdom without a host of restrictions or setting up something that violates the ToS.

It makes me sad when every single change we make to the game has to be ran through 'how can someone cheat or abuse this' but it is what it is.

[Exxo]

It makes me sad when every single change we make to the game has to be ran through 'how can someone cheat or abuse this' but it is what it is.

*sighs* yeah, I can understand that. Well, to be fair, the line between "strategy" and "abuse" is quite blurred.

[JokesOnMe]

No, sorry that wasn't a very clear statement.

She actually lives on the same street as us, and in our efforts in trying to help her learn the game she's been coming over to our place so we can show her how to calculate attacks and what all the different numbers do. And the second she entered our house with her laptop she is on our IP, and that **** stays with you. So even when she goes home and wants to attack she's still blocked from doing so.

Never saw this replied to specifically. My coworker had the same issue. We e-mailed utopia support and was informed blocks in regards to aid and attacking same targets will clear if he/she stops using the same IP for a 24 hour period. It's not a permanent block.