We have plenty of UtoLawyers but what we need...

[Palem]

Are UtoJudges. Lawyers bickering over the meaning of words and the legitimacy of terms means literally nothing if it isn't taken to an objective body and given an objective ruling.

Either that or we should stop the charade that Utopians have ethics and aren't doing everything in their power to screw over the competition.

[Bart of Sparta]

Are UtoJudges. Lawyers bickering over the meaning of words and the legitimacy of terms means literally nothing if it isn't taken to an objective body and given an objective ruling.

Either that or we should stop the charade that Utopians have ethics and aren't doing everything in their power to screw over the competition.

Let's just stop the charade that utopians have ethics. If we do that, I can retire in peace ^^

[Pillz]

I've already made a suggestion that would eliminate this issue entirely.

There should be no terms linked to Cfs, no NAPs, and no notice deals.

Palem & his ilk has demonstrated over the ages that the only purpose such things serve is to tilt the balance of power and allow them to bend, twist, and undermine their own deals for their own further benefit.

Of course the opposite can't be done to them or else it's unethical and in need of policing.

And once again, I move that moderators be banned from competing in game.

[Goodwitch]

I suggest Bart, ASF, Palem and Steel as impartial judges..once in chambers it'll all get sorted

[Palem]

Palem & his ilk has demonstrated over the ages that the only purpose such things serve is to tilt the balance of power and allow them to bend, twist, and undermine their own deals for their own further benefit.

Can you name me one time I've "bent" a deal or played scummy via muddy wording? Surely with such a long period of dominance for me personally and the massive amounts of carefully worded deals you'd be able to just find one instance...

I suggest Bart, ASF, Palem and Steel as impartial judges..once in chambers it'll all get sorted

I have no interest in being a judge. Simply point out a massive flaw in the Utopians concept of ethics

[Pillz]

Can you name me one time I've "bent" a deal or played scummy via muddy wording? Surely with such a long period of dominance for me personally and the massive amounts of carefully worded deals you'd be able to just find one instance...


I have no interest in being a judge. Simply point out a massive flaw in the Utopians concept of ethics

Don't get your panties in a twist. I'm just grouping you in with those you consistently support in public.

The company we keep etc etc

[Sweetiepie]

Let's just stop the charade that utopians have ethics. If we do that, I can retire in peace ^^

Some Utopians do have ethics. They will be found lower down in the pecking order.
The top circle jerk doesn't. They 'police' their own warped game style for the benefit of themselves and their friends. They do not give a tinker's cuss about the rest.
Hope that clarified for you.

[Pillz]

Some Utopians do have ethics. They will be found lower down in the pecking order.
The top circle jerk doesn't. They 'police' their own warped game style for the benefit of themselves and their friends. They do not give a tinker's cuss about the rest.
Hope that clarified for you.

As has been demonstrated for you countless times, ghettos are the least scrupled segment of the community.

At least in the top they advertise it.

[Sweetiepie]

As has been demonstrated for you countless times, ghettos are the least scrupled segment of the community.

At least in the top they advertise it.

Depends what you define as a ghetto, doesn't it?

1)It sometimes appears that everyone below one's own nw band level is considered to be a ghetto.
2)And monarchs towards the top end proudly proclaim their kds to be a ghetto....

So you're going to have to define that before you paint them red.
What I would call real ghettos are not organised enough to be unscrupulous...sounds like you fall into the 1st category

[Lestat]

Thought you were going to say we needed a Utopian Mike Ehrmantraut

[Chanain]

Bah, the UtoLawyers give real lawyers a bad name. And that's saying something. Lawyers are notorious for hollow sophistry, but at least they can usually make the argument *sound* reasonable...

But the truth is that it's not all that different from many international laws, treaties, and conventions. In many cases, international commitments are non-binding, and *most* countries with any real clout disregard them at will, if any potential reasonable-sounding argument can be made to justify the action. (Honestly, who really believes that the Russians didn't send troops into Ukraine? Anyone? Or that there was any legal justification for America's 2003 invasion of Iraq? Or how about sending a strike team across Pakistan's sovereign borders to assassinate bin Laden?)

Anyways, back to the problem at hand: The solution isn't to have a collection of formal or informally-recognized judges enforcing the 'law', in the nature of a criminal court, which would require some sort of collective agreement not only on the applicable standards, but also on the individuals who apply them. The real solution is more along the lines of an arbitration mechanism - if you and I have an issue that we can't work out on our own, let's at least try to agree on somebody we can trust to decide the issue. Find someone that both of us expect will give us a fair hearing, and agree to be bound by his/her conclusions in terms of liability and remedies.

[Mongoose]

So after not playing for almost a decade i came back and it's still the same type's of arguments?


LOL, seems i haven't missed much.

[RollinHammer]

Imo bring in someone who doesnt play the game... someone who can look at the wording and determine how big of liars you all are

[Mongoose]

I thought all lawyers uto or otherwise were liars?

[Avenger]

Wasn't Palem creating avians to raze people the last time they had elite credits? :P