Bottom Feeding

[LochNess]

Ridiculous bottom feeding indeed :(

Posted a suggestion, please take a look and comment if it's feasible or not.

[Akkadian/Taylor]

Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

[feast]

What you seem to be having an issue is with mainly honor whoring.

I addressed this in my suggestion thread "My 72". Limiting honor gains oow, would significantly reduce these practices by the top by pure discouragement alone. Right now there is little risk in doing so for good gains, however risking a retal for 20 honor is serious enough most wouldn't do it.

[Goodwitch]

bounce their cows not the honor whore

ns isnt available till UF which they most likely won't give you. But if you start bouncing their cows they'll most likely want to at least start talking to you as it makes them vulnerable to kingdoms in their own range. They won't stop using this tactic but you'll pass the buck maybe
meanwhile explosions on the province that is honor whoring 24/7 will hurt at least some

I do agree with you that this constitutes abusing game mechanics in a way not intended but the devs clearly do not wish to act on it.

[Folle]

What you seem to be having an issue is with mainly honor whoring.

I addressed this in my suggestion thread "My 72". Limiting honor gains oow, would significantly reduce these practices by the top by pure discouragement alone. Right now there is little risk in doing so for good gains, however risking a retal for 20 honor is serious enough most wouldn't do it.

Acres has first prio, honour is just a nice extra.

[Palem]

Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

Why not both?

[Akkadian/Taylor]

Why not both?

Haters gonna hate

[Goodwitch]

now would be a great time to get back at them if that is what you wanted ;)

[bdbcoyote]

Sometimes bottom feeding doesn't pay off. Just witnessed a kingdom 75% the size of the other kingdom just win at min time war. 15.5mil NW vs 21.8mil NW and ended war at 16 NW to 17 NW with over 10k acre swing. So sometimes size doesn't always equal a war win.

[Madchess]

There is several courses of action to take and I have fougth back against this strategy against the 1st and 2nd kingdom on a few occasions I would even call it succesfully as they moved on, depending on the senario and your oppotunities some of the below suggestions might be of help, there is no fix it all to your problem, but you'll find that some of these suggestions might work better than others.

What you should be aware of is that they are quite mindfull of relations and will limit themself to hitting much smaller kingdoms 1 time a day so no one get the oppotunity and the bright idea to spam fools gold on a few provinces which would make gains to costly for them. Also they are not expecting you to hit back, and they might continue to 1x every day until no more gains can be had or you offer them up even easier to take gains to make them go away (do not even considder that ever, at best they will move on to the next kingdom with the same strategy, at worst they might get beck to you next age expecting to get the same deal or to make more free hits), this makes them quite annoying but also predictable.

You tell us no one in your kingdom can retal, is that because everyone is OOR or because you can not retal the offending province?

If you have no big attackers and only big t/m's one way could be to either grow an attacker or two, or to simply make 1 intra hit on the highest nw t/m or all if they are similair in size, if your already got a big attacker and he can not hit soldier def then he is dooing it wrong and needs more offenses.

this will give you either the means to hit back or deprive the offending kingdom of their target.

If you are not beeing hit by their smallest nw province try to look at that province to retal, if they run soldier def across the board and you are hit by the 2nd or 3rd smallest you might be able to hit the smallest province and get some gains back, remember they limit themself to 1x a day on kingdoms to small to wave, so you will most likely not get retaled if you do this, and you might persuade them to move elsewhere.

Other steps you can take would include stealing the gold from the one province that hit you, if you got big t/m's even with nw diffrences they should be able to get a good chunk, and if done as retals they will usually leave you alone. You may also keep an eye on their nw across the board, detect any drop for like 100k or so that is usually an indicator of someone training troops, and while nw and defenses will go up, if you catch them while most are still in training there might be an opening and their nw will be to high to hit you once everything is trained.

Don't be afraid of retals, as long as they are to big to wave and in competition for 1st spot they will usually avoid fighting unnesesary fights unless you push them by mass retaling, rule of thumb is make 1 hit on them every time they make 1 on you. Usually what makes the diffrence between a good and a great kingdom is that some good kingdoms will get bogged down endlessly in useless fights while others will avoid all that and rise to the top, retal away on both types of kingdoms, but be aware that if they do end up giving you relations and you retal back with ops and attacks there might be a risk of them escalating the conflict, if they offer a blank EoA cf in that case take it.

[tiggis]

The kingdom and province in question is cheating.
They are manipulating a mechanic in the game that tries to make the game more fair and instead leveraging it to make the game unfair.

It is the type of play that chases new players away....

[Pillz]

The kingdom and province in question is cheating.
They are manipulating a mechanic in the game that tries to make the game more fair and instead leveraging it to make the game unfair.

It is the type of play that chases new players away....

They aren't abusing anything that hasn't been abused before. For many ages. And I think DavidC helped pioneer this NW-dropping for gains & honor thing, even.

Learn (by reading this and other threads) how to play Utopia with all 3000+ players.

[StratOcastle]

I like to hit deeper in the big kingdom ranks, but not hit a t/m unless they hit ours. If they hit ours I'll attempt to hit their t/ms. The reason I want to hit deeper is to demonstrate a willingness to retal in an unpredictable manner.

Yeah, yeah, meter, razes, yada, yada.

Small kingdom often make the mistake of looking at the entire big kingdom. Oh, look at how big it is! Really, you should look at one third down to a quarter, a fifth(?) of the big kingdom and plan to mutilate those provinces till they green your whole kingdom. It's like tearing a mans arm off who makes a living as a boxer. Clamp, pull, twist.

Remember I said plan. Don't share that plan, just be polite and ask for CF and compensation. If they refuse compensation and you deserve compensation: clamp, pull, twist.

If compensation is frivolous because no real harm was done, then a simple CF will do. Never, never, never with the exception of no absolutes, float a CF with no diplomacy. It's pure nonsense and I see it all the freaking time and it just...it just...it's wrong. Man, it drives me up the wall.

Always be polite, even if they're dicks. Be sympathetic in feeling but psychotic in action. Be cruel. Kick them when they're down, but be polite and prepared to make peace. Impress them as a better Allie than an enemy. Doesn't mean you have to.

[Madchess]

@Strato

They already said no one can hit the province who hit them, what you describe is appropiate actions against someone waving like 40% down and beeing dicks about it.

I think the senario is more like 1-2 provinces at 180% of their biggest provinces networth that drops to 120% via aiding out soldiers and then hit once and get the soldiers back immidiately after with 1x hit every day for a number of days, that is the senario I've covered. 1x hit a day I've encountered from many top kd's, Emeriti, BB, CoL and probably many more, the soldier drop I've only encountered first hand from Emeriti which made retals a bit inefficient, my guess however is that they can only do this if they got everyone cf'ed in the top, and only with the 5 smallest provinces at most.

Of course if there was a way it was just a kingdom significantly bigger hitting them you could pick a number of provinces in the lower tier and absolutely deny them any growth for as long as they keep hitting you, if my bottom 5 provinces are the only ones in range of your core I guess you can let the bigger provinces grow so big they can't get more gains from you, while absolutely devastate those 5 smallest provinces.

[Bo To]

Strato the problem is that the big KD while can't hit back can get another KD which is pumped and ready to fight back the smaller KD. Few ages ago I was in such position - emeriti attacked us we retailed and a bigger but war build KD with which we didn't have any relation with massed as.