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Thread: Age 72 Power Rankings

  1. #16
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    I added a 25% factor on gains for Human to account for the General. Might be a bit heavy of a mod for it, but I think it was selling Humy a bit short in previous editions. Worked out a couple other hiccups, corrected a few rDPA figures, and I added the Halfer and Faery attacker setups. I am still open to any suggestions on how to improve the rating system, but likely won't be releasing further ones until next Age.

    Ok here we go; gonna drop no Sci, 50% Sci, and Capped Sci... in that order, and that will be it for this Age, I promise :P

    ZERO SCIENCE



    HALF SCIENCE



    CAPPED SCIENCE





    EDIT: Totally slipped my mind about the Halfer OSpec... it moves them up over UD with 90% Specs, closer to the 50% converted UD, in fact.
    Last edited by RattleHead; 23-05-2017 at 04:46.

  2. #17
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    Faery don't have +1 mana per hour anymore
    Started Age 68

  3. #18
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    Ah, I see. I hadn't spotted the way you were including tpa/wpa. It seems a bit odd to me because your starting point is looking at space (you set the dpa and look at the opa) and then you move on to looking at damage. But tpa/wpa bonus could be seen as a space mod too, and it is being used in the damage section. It can probably be demonstrated more clearly in the attacking section now as yuou have added hafling (thanks). So hafling in attacking is being given 2 raw tpa, which will be 2.4 mod tpa. So you are comparing a hafling with 2.4 mod tpa with everything else with 2 mod tpa (which is exacerbated more with full sci).

    Ps Undead have + mana. Putting them in would help illustrate my point too. Because you are setting raw tpa/wpa so undead are neutral and have +mana so should come out well. But in reality they have lower science tpa/wpa mods, but this isn't factored into tpa/wpa in your spreadsheet.

  4. #19
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LochNess View Post
    Faery don't have +1 mana per hour anymore
    ahhh snap, i thought i removed that, mustbe crept back in when I was copying parts of it to update. Thanks. Sadly, it drops them to 70% on W-agg, and even below Elf on T-agg with 54%, since I don't have a good way to measure the benefit of All Spells Access. (edit)

    @Chris121 - I see what you are getting at, but doing it that way would make this endlessly complicated for me. Also in my experience, provinces with TPA or WPA mods don't generally shoot for lower raw numbers than others. They aim for at least the same or more, so their Race bonus can carry the day.

    Why wouldn't UD Science be factored in? If they had the same rTWPA as the others on that list, their military numbers would be pathetic and they would rank very poorly. I understand Mystic/Rogue/Heretic science is not included, but for now Races only is complicated enough. :P


    To get in the same defence range as those listed on TMs, UD needs 24 DSPA along with the 25% Forts I have listed for TMs... also requires 75% Homes to have enough population to do it, and leaves you with ~1 peon/acre ... they end up with a rating around 25% on W-agg
    Last edited by RattleHead; 23-05-2017 at 16:45. Reason: Faery Spell access

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    Why wouldn't UD Science be factored in?
    Tpa/WPA science wouldn't be factored in because you are using raw tpa/wpa values.

    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    To get in the same defence range as those listed on TMs, UD needs 24 DSPA along with the 25% Forts I have listed for TMs... also requires 75% Homes to have enough population to do it, and leaves you with ~1 peon/acre ... they end up with a rating around 25% on W-agg
    Lol. As it turns out then they come out poorly in any case (even with the + mana?!). Including their science (in mod tpa/wpa) would make it worse for them ;)

  6. #21
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    Ahh ok I see what you're getting at. Yes realistically the way I am doing this only BE, Pop, and Mil science are really factoring in, I suppose.

  7. #22
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    OK been tweaking away at this.... I changed the T/W numbers to mods is the biggest difference, probably.

    Would like to find a want to quantify All Spells access, as they seem to lag a bit more than you would expect in Magic ranks. Any Suggestions??

    Thief Cost really sets Halfling apart from the field in the Thief ranks, the others drop significantly back they are in a relatively tight pack for 2nd/3rd.

    WPA and W-dmg mods make Elf the #1 Magic rank, without adding those compensations (mWPA already counted in population numbers, but counted again for speed of pump, as Thief Cost) Dwarf runs away with these Magic rankings, with Elf coming in 2nd around ~75% of the Dwarf! I could not have this :)

    Science seems to benefit Halflings as attackers, they are the only attacking setup to make a move on the ranks as science increases.

    Elf is the only mover on the TM ranks, as they climb over Faery on the Thief ranks sometime mid-game- as Magic Science starts to stack with the WPA mod, I presume this gives Elf a population advantage over the Faery.

    NO SCIENCE



    HALF SCIENCE



    CAPPED SCIENCE



    ... I realize its late now, but if they don't flip-flop on hLBG I should be able to make short work of it for future Ages!

  8. #23
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    Nice. I think the logic you are using now in the main part of the tables is much better. :)

    One small-ish glitch is that the mod dpas with full science are different within each race and I can't see why that should be the case (the starting point was that dpa was fixed).

    Personally, I would revisit some of the assumptions in the left hand column. For example mod tpa and mod wpa for attackers: 2 mod tpa/wpa with maxed sci is low (I suspect you agree as you were using 2 raw before ;). Similarly, 2:1 off:def units produces a very suicidal attacker and I hope most people who go to the trouble of looking at this don't spend too long as a peasant ;)

    It might be useful for the attack ones to show mod opa/dpa rather than (or in addition to) raw.

  9. #24
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    After these raw numbers, everyone has access to the same mods to stack on top of the numbers shown, so I don't feel showing mOPA DPA for attackers is very informative. You can add your Warrior bonus and X% from TGs to these numbers and figure it out :P - I used similar logic on the Honor perks, I rather compare just the race, rather than someone's specific province, but of course the population perks of honor will work differently across the races. I will look into adding honor to the 50% and Capped versions in the future. 0% Peasant - 50% Baron - 100% Marquis ... something like this.

    The mDPAs vary, but its by less than 2%, the difference made by 1-200 peasants I felt was negligible for the amount of work it takes me to get them to match exactly. I don't want to start adjusting homes by 0.1%, or even 1%s tbh.

    Yes I would say the mod tpa/wpa probably a bit low for the attackers. Maybe 3 on 50% and 4 on 100% or so... Suicidal is in the eye of the beholder, I hope most the attackers who go to the trouble of looking at this don't spend the Age turtling! hahah

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    After these raw numbers, everyone has access to the same mods to stack on top of the numbers shown, so I don't feel showing mOPA DPA for attackers is very informative.
    If raw is truly raw (without military science) then this isn't true but maybe you are using raw plus military sci?

    Spells also create differences to mods which previously were racial differences. Obviously this has been made trickier with Palladin now, so technically you are correct from a spells perspective everyone has "access to" the same mods (at least in theory).

  11. #26
    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    yes, i am including science as part of the 'raw numbers. sorry if the nomenclature is a bit misleading!

    when i play my province and i have military science, i consider my increased BME @ 100% wages to be my new 'raw' state. so a faery with +10% mil sci would be listed as 11 raw defence in this analysis, for example.

  12. #27
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    I see - okay, thanks.

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