Clarification Affluent Ritual

[Manslayer]

@korp

You are not looking at this with any logic :)
If you break down all the different stances and statuses, it makes a lot of sense.
1) In CF you cant make hostile activities, check
2) In war you have a -75% penalty to other kingdoms, check
3) If your kingdom is in war with a cf you get a cf bonus, check

Nothing wrong here. Your kingdom clearly is in war with a CF to the warring KD.
Can you attack any other KD you have CF with in or out of war? No. So it works as expected.

But the devs clearly says the KD is NOT in war.
You either have all the effect of being in war (KR included) or remove the -75% penalty from other KDs.
The last problem I haven't brought up is that you can end the war earlier, loosing the "not in war" bonus, its a CF bonus, remember.
And now suddenly, you can attack KDs without the -75% penalty. MAAAGIC!

So all in all its working as intended, if we are in war.
If not, they are breaking a ton of rules.

[TheRealBazinga]

Who reads proposed changes these days? There were so many changes of the changes (i'm not blaming anyone, the final changes were good to great).

War only means War only. Check our kingdom. It sais that we're in war.

I still see it futile, noone will choose affluent in these conditions, from my point of view.

[Korp]

You either have all the effect of being in war (KR included) or remove the -75% penalty from other KDs.

Kingdoms that would hit into it has the same effects as previously you dont have the same effects. Devs saying that End of War ceasefire is a separate from the war only. Its in the name its in the bonuses and benefits its in everything. They are two different things even if looks like same and acts like the same for everyone else that isnt in the war.

Who reads proposed changes these days? There were so many changes of the changes (i'm not blaming anyone, the final changes were good to great).

War only means War only. Check our kingdom. It sais that we're in war.

I still see it futile, noone will choose affluent in these conditions, from my point of view.

Go attack then, why arent you attacking in war? If i grab a SN how many of you have attacked? None? oh what the **** is it a fake war? ....

[cRs]

I can understand the frustration with semantics and mechanics, but it's probably in place to prevent catastrophic abuses.

The sinister reasoning would be the devs feel farmable war exiting kingdoms are good for the game: a high protein breakfast of fat, honor rich, war weary kingdoms is part of this essential diet. :)

Suffice to say, you can play the game this way to. I'm not advocating it.

The devs have taken steps to get more kingdoms into serious gaming, so I'd balance my critisism with praise. Personally I'm happy as indicated by my inability to make easy strategic decisions this age. Parity is alive and keeps things interesting.

Not saying its a bad thing but they should have explained this better before kds who just finished wars spends lots of resources and time to complete it... cuz as stated by others we are still in war by the game rulles

"Our Kingdom is at WAR!
We are covered by the Affluent ritual with 99.5% strength left!"

Thats what u can see on throne page.. final changes says clearlly (works only in war).. and yet it doesnt work. So again nice work..

[TheRealBazinga]

Kingdoms that would hit into it has the same effects as previously you dont have the same effects. Devs saying that End of War ceasefire is a separate from the war only. Its in the name its in the bonuses and benefits its in everything. They are two different things even if looks like same and acts like the same for everyone else that isnt in the war.

Go attack then, why arent you attacking in war? If i grab a SN how many of you have attacked? None? oh what the **** is it a fake war? ....

Dude, it says War Only. We're at war. Not with a kingdom that we can op/attack, but still at war. From an utopian perspective.

[Manslayer]

@korp

Well it isnt.
If you CF any kingdom you dont get a bonus.
The bonus comes from CF with a KD you are in war with.
And how do I know that?

1) You go to war
2) You surrender
3) You enter CF
4) You get CF Bonus

No matter how you look at it its not a war bonus, its a surrender/cf bonus only applied when you are in war with a kingdom.
So if they say one thing they have done a completely different thing. I can say Im a cat but that doesnt change facts sadly Im not.

In war you have a -75% penalty.
So are you in war or not? Obviously you are or you wouldnt have the -75% penalty.
It has nothing to do with the CF bonus, its not a war bonus or perk.

As I said before.
There are 3 stances, 2 statuses and 2 CF statuses.
You have aggressive, normal and fortified, that are in or out of effect based on kd status and can be changed even in war.
Then you have CF and EoWCF.

These are all separated.
So in theory you can be in war with kingdom x:y and have a EoWCF with x:x.
But in the real world, the world we play in. That can obviously not happen. So we are down to basic #1.
When do war ends? And why are some war bonus in effect when others arent? They are breaking their own rules.

[RattleHead]

from the wiki;

End-of-War Ceasefire
After a war ends, neither kingdom may have any relations for an Utopian Month and are automatically placed in a 12 hour end-of-war ceasefire. During the ceasefire both kingdoms remain in war relations ...

[Korp]

When do war ends? And why are some war bonus in effect when others arent? They are breaking their own rules.

What does it state in the paper when you withdraw or the enemy kd surrender? Seems like a clean break

Dude, it says War Only. We're at war. Not with a kingdom that we can op/attack, but still at war. From an utopian perspective.

Dude, go attack thats what you do in war right? You attack others!!! I thought you warring kds knew how to play Utopia, now it seems you lack the fundemental basics of warring, attacking. /end of sarcasm

Seriously though, if you people cant see the difference between being in war and eowcf then its a lost cause. You are stuck in one gear and argue semantics so ****ing hard its ridiculous. Like if it was changed to eowcf on throne page and kd page then you wouldnt have any room to ***** anymore. Its hilarious though that of all people its WSK people that complain so much since when you guys warred CR couple of ages ago you didnt absolutely didnt lose the war even if it clearly stated that you guys withdrew and our failed war ended. I guess sticking to semantics is just a matter of flexibility depending on what side you stand on today.

[RattleHead]

I think we understand the logic that you can separate War into two segments. What you are failing to do is recognize that when someone says War, it can be interpreted as referring to one, or both of those segments.

It would seem after proposing something very similar, that was EoWCF only, that more concrete steps could have been taken to ensure the player base understood what the changes meant.

Simply adding " - Not EOWCF" inside the parentheses with (WAR ONLY) would have made things a lot clearer, and would have resulted in vastly different feedback from the players as well, I imagine.

Communication is the basis for the game, it is what causes KDs to rise and fall. If you can't clearly convey the changes you are making to the game, or what you are trying to achieve- then we are all going to lose.

[Korp]

I understand your and the rest POV i just strongly disagree with it. I have always treated it differently so for me its so obviously clear (plus if you read both proposed and final changes it should become even clearer) But sure, Utopians are bunch of nitpicks so it could probably made even more obvious what it was refered to.

[RattleHead]

Leaving any room for interpretation in Age changes is big fat fail if you ask me.

[TheRealBazinga]

What does it state in the paper when you withdraw or the enemy kd surrender? Seems like a clean break

Dude, go attack thats what you do in war right? You attack others!!! I thought you warring kds knew how to play Utopia, now it seems you lack the fundemental basics of warring, attacking. /end of sarcasm

Seriously though, if you people cant see the difference between being in war and eowcf then its a lost cause. You are stuck in one gear and argue semantics so ****ing hard its ridiculous. Like if it was changed to eowcf on throne page and kd page then you wouldnt have any room to ***** anymore. Its hilarious though that of all people its WSK people that complain so much since when you guys warred CR couple of ages ago you didnt absolutely didnt lose the war even if it clearly stated that you guys withdrew and our failed war ended. I guess sticking to semantics is just a matter of flexibility depending on what side you stand on today.

I can't imagine that you got upset by me calling you "dude". I called you "Dude" with love, not otherwise.

I already told you twice what my (our) interpretation of war is. War is separated in two phases. But both of them are called "War".

Just above your post, Rattlehead brought to your (and anybody else) attention that even the wiki states that war relations don't close when one kingdom withdraws.
This is not Utopia Talk. You don't help anyone by repeatedly answering ironically to everyone. We would like a discussion (or a point of view) regarding our arguments. Not from you, because you are just a player. But from someone who can give an official answer to our questions and change (if it's considered necessary) either the "Final Changes" thread either the ritual itself.

P.S. 1 - Changing the subject to a personal attack against WSK won't help either;
P.S. 2 - I still love you.

[Korp]

What i read from the post Rattlehead posted.

"End-of-War Ceasefire After a _war ends_ ;)


The official answer has been already given Bazinga, post 18. You so busy arguing semantics that you dont have time to read the whole thread? :)

It wasnt a personal attack just a observation. :) Funny one consider all things.

[TheRealBazinga]

No, what Rattlehead posted was "During the ceasefire both kingdoms remain in war relations". The official answer (post 18) was based on some preliminary questions. The official answer (post 18) was not really and official answer on this matter.

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy with the new leadership and how it manages all things related to this game, except one. This one :)

Please consider to stop posting on this matter. Please.

People (also non-wsk-ers) have a problem with one of the new mechanics of the game. You don't any power over this matter. If you stop posting, we'll also stop posting.

[RattleHead]

Too busy trying to be right that you don't have time to read the whole sentence?

"After a war ends ... both kingdoms remain in war relations"