Clarification Affluent Ritual

[Jo3MoMMa]

Definitely talked the squad into going heavy towers pregame since we had a war arranged. Burned the whole team there.

[Selephant]

I don't think it was deliberate--there would be no point in tricking players into completing a pointless ritual. But it was misleading. All war conditions persist in EOWCF unless specifically exempted, so this certainly needs some clarification.

I suppose your right but both Zauper and Hawk are well immersed in the utopia zeitgeist. they are well aware that war = eowcf, so for them to not make that qualifying distinction is dubious at best.

[DavidC]

Can you perform Propaganda during EoWCF? No, because you are no longer at war. You are in war stance, but not at war.

EoWCF is already providing bonuses. There is no need to stack additional bonuses on some Kingdoms that are organized enough to cast the KR. If we wanted to buff EoWCF we could have just done that instead of providing bonuses to some Kingdoms instead of all.

The goal of the WAR only KR is to provide a new strategic element to warring, not add buffs to EoWCF pumping. All the scenarios I see listed in this thread regarding the reasons the KR can't be cast appear to me to be consciously made choices to not perform the KR. You have the option, as does every Kingdom, of stockpiling runes before a war (same as gc, mana, stealth, soldiers). If you have 25 provinces (the goal of every Kingdom should be to have 25 provinces otherwise that is another active conscious choice made that has strategic consequences) and you stockpile your mana and runes and also take advantage of the new Propose War feature that allows you to enter war directly without long drawn out Hostiles, you should have 2250 mana available to your Kingdom (plus 25 * 1 spell cast since 2250 would only bring you down to 10 mana and you get 1 more cast). A KR requires 500 mana to complete if you are casting it the first 2 spells while at 100 mana (this could be much less if you use it as the last casts, but for argument's sake we'll go with the higher amount). You are essentially suggesting that +25% income, +20% Birth Rate and +25% increased draft speed for the next 120 hours is not worth ~20% of your Kingdom's mana? 30% if you all fail 1x (2x and you remove the extra spell I've accounted for at 10% mana). I feel you may want to re-consider your war planning if that is the case, not to mention the fact that the ritual can't be removed this age. I would suggest you compare the pro's and con's one more time for this age while you have free 120 hour rituals because they will likely be destroyable next age!


Now, I'm sure the next post I will see is: "Our opponent has Affluent KR making it near impossible for us to beat them with no way to remove it and no way to cast our own now that we're already in war and theirs is up!"
It's a new strategic tool for you to take advantage of if you so choose. It is your choice alone whether you want to use it or not. I'll give you this piece of advice though, how many times are your faery going to cast ToG in war? How many times will you cast L&P in war? How many times will you cast Patriotism in war? Every tick of Affluent is a free ToG for every single province, and every 12 ticks in war is a free cast of L&P AND Patriotism for the entire Kingdom. From that perspective it would seem you've recovered the mana 'lost' by casting it after the first 12 hours? At most by 24 hours...and you have it on you for another 96 hours (if your war drags out?).

Anyway, good luck with your decision making :) I hope this helps!

[Selephant]

Can you perform Propaganda during EoWCF? No, because you are no longer at war. You are in war stance, but not at war.
EoWCF is already providing bonuses. There is no need to stack additional bonuses on some Kingdoms that are organized enough to cast the KR. If we wanted to buff EoWCF we could have just done that instead of providing bonuses to some Kingdoms instead of all.

The goal of the WAR only KR is to provide a new strategic element to warring, not add buffs to EoWCF pumping. All the scenarios I see listed in this thread regarding the reasons the KR can't be cast appear to me to be consciously made choices to not perform the KR. You have the option, as does every Kingdom, of stockpiling runes before a war (same as gc, mana, stealth, soldiers). If you have 25 provinces (the goal of every Kingdom should be to have 25 provinces otherwise that is another active conscious choice made that has strategic consequences) and you stockpile your mana and runes and also take advantage of the new Propose War feature that allows you to enter war directly without long drawn out Hostiles, you should have 2250 mana available to your Kingdom (plus 25 * 1 spell cast since 2250 would only bring you down to 10 mana and you get 1 more cast). A KR requires 500 mana to complete if you are casting it the first 2 spells while at 100 mana (this could be much less if you use it as the last casts, but for argument's sake we'll go with the higher amount). You are essentially suggesting that +25% income, +20% Birth Rate and +25% increased draft speed for the next 120 hours is not worth ~20% of your Kingdom's mana? 30% if you all fail 1x (2x and you remove the extra spell I've accounted for at 10% mana). I feel you may want to re-consider your war planning if that is the case, not to mention the fact that the ritual can't be removed this age. I would suggest you compare the pro's and con's one more time for this age while you have free 120 hour rituals because they will likely be destroyable next age!


Now, I'm sure the next post I will see is: "Our opponent has Affluent KR making it near impossible for us to beat them with no way to remove it and no way to cast our own now that we're already in war and theirs is up!"
It's a new strategic tool for you to take advantage of if you so choose. It is your choice alone whether you want to use it or not. I'll give you this piece of advice though, how many times are your faery going to cast ToG in war? How many times will you cast L&P in war? How many times will you cast Patriotism in war? Every tick of Affluent is a free ToG for every single province, and every 12 ticks in war is a free cast of L&P AND Patriotism for the entire Kingdom. From that perspective it would seem you've recovered the mana 'lost' by casting it after the first 12 hours? At most by 24 hours...and you have it on you for another 96 hours (if your war drags out?).

Anyway, good luck with your decision making :) I hope this helps!

Yes you can perform propaganda during EoWCF I've done it in the split seconds of lag before the game realizes a kingdom has surrendered, what prevents you is the additional conditions that EoWCF provides which are above and beyond all other stances (preventing all ops/attacks, starting of dragons, or sending of CFs), but never was EoWCF ever considered it's own stance. If you really force me to I can probably dig up Zauper's own words somewhere on this forum where he has said as much.

Don't ToG, mana and runes at a premium and the only one who can ToG is faery which is wearing a 2 piece gimp suit a la -5% pop and -10% income.

Don't pat, mana and runes at a premium and attackers dont have peasants to draft from anyway.

Dont LP. Peasants are the devils children, causes you to overpop harder.

This is war on 99% of the server.

I would rather the barrier ritual in pretty much all situations. It seems like you created the affluent ritual for a small subset of the game.

Even so, the fact remains, it would have been exceedingly simple to add an additional qualifier to the description of the affluent ritual "Does not work in EoWCF"... you know the W stands for war right?

Sorry for the snark, but you're being rather patronizing.

[Korp]

Yes you can perform propaganda during EoWCF I've done it in the split seconds of lag before the game realizes a kingdom has surrendered, what prevents you is the additional conditions that EoWCF provides which are above and beyond all other stances (preventing all ops/attacks, starting of dragons, or sending of CFs), but never was EoWCF ever considered it's own stance. If you really force me to I can probably dig up Zauper's own words somewhere on this forum where he has said as much.

So you cant do it. If the game dont recognize a surrender yet there is no eowcf. If you could it in eowcf you wouldnt need the criteria you mention to do it. Why cant you attack the other kingdom in eowcf? Why is there a name specific for it if it just war?Why do you suddenly have different amount of bonuses that you didnt have previously i+f its just war stance? How does that work, i mean how can stance have two different set of bonuse depending on when its in the war?

[Selephant]

So you cant do it. If the game dont recognize a surrender yet there is no eowcf. If you could it in eowcf you wouldnt need the criteria you mention to do it. Why cant you attack the other kingdom in eowcf? Why is there a name specific for it if it just war?Why do you suddenly have different amount of bonuses that you didnt have previously i+f its just war stance? How does that work, i mean how can stance have two different set of bonuse depending on when its in the war?

i dont disagree with you, but this is the what has been spouted since eowcf existed. i'm just asking for consistency especially when it comes to the things that are left unsaid

[Bayhuy]

Can you perform Propaganda during EoWCF? No, because you are no longer at war. You are in war stance, but not at war.

EoWCF is already providing bonuses. There is no need to stack additional bonuses on some Kingdoms that are organized enough to cast the KR. If we wanted to buff EoWCF we could have just done that instead of providing bonuses to some Kingdoms instead of all.

The goal of the WAR only KR is to provide a new strategic element to warring, not add buffs to EoWCF pumping. All the scenarios I see listed in this thread regarding the reasons the KR can't be cast appear to me to be consciously made choices to not perform the KR. You have the option, as does every Kingdom, of stockpiling runes before a war (same as gc, mana, stealth, soldiers). If you have 25 provinces (the goal of every Kingdom should be to have 25 provinces otherwise that is another active conscious choice made that has strategic consequences) and you stockpile your mana and runes and also take advantage of the new Propose War feature that allows you to enter war directly without long drawn out Hostiles, you should have 2250 mana available to your Kingdom (plus 25 * 1 spell cast since 2250 would only bring you down to 10 mana and you get 1 more cast). A KR requires 500 mana to complete if you are casting it the first 2 spells while at 100 mana (this could be much less if you use it as the last casts, but for argument's sake we'll go with the higher amount). You are essentially suggesting that +25% income, +20% Birth Rate and +25% increased draft speed for the next 120 hours is not worth ~20% of your Kingdom's mana? 30% if you all fail 1x (2x and you remove the extra spell I've accounted for at 10% mana). I feel you may want to re-consider your war planning if that is the case, not to mention the fact that the ritual can't be removed this age. I would suggest you compare the pro's and con's one more time for this age while you have free 120 hour rituals because they will likely be destroyable next age!


Now, I'm sure the next post I will see is: "Our opponent has Affluent KR making it near impossible for us to beat them with no way to remove it and no way to cast our own now that we're already in war and theirs is up!"
It's a new strategic tool for you to take advantage of if you so choose. It is your choice alone whether you want to use it or not. I'll give you this piece of advice though, how many times are your faery going to cast ToG in war? How many times will you cast L&P in war? How many times will you cast Patriotism in war? Every tick of Affluent is a free ToG for every single province, and every 12 ticks in war is a free cast of L&P AND Patriotism for the entire Kingdom. From that perspective it would seem you've recovered the mana 'lost' by casting it after the first 12 hours? At most by 24 hours...and you have it on you for another 96 hours (if your war drags out?).

Anyway, good luck with your decision making :) I hope this helps!

ofc EOWCF is war and Affluent ritual should work there. that ritual is useless in war and noone will use it. Just remove it if you can`t use it in EOWCF. why stances don`t work in EOWCF? because it is war.
you can`t expect people to guess how you program the game. to waste huge amount of runes and time to build and raze a lot towers and in the end to say it not working in EOWCF

[Korp]

i dont disagree with you, but this is the what has been spouted since eowcf existed. i'm just asking for consistency especially when it comes to the things that are left unsaid

It seems that everyone has accepted that eowcf is treated differently than the war itself since forever as people should have figured out that it wouldnt apply either then since its not war its End of WAR CF. People seem in general happy with things when its benficial with them but as soon is turns to negative people start to *****. Should scrap the whole eowcf.

ofc EOWCF is war and Affluent ritual should work there. that ritual is useless in war and noone will use it. Just remove it if you can`t use it in EOWCF. why stances don`t work in EOWCF? because it is war.
you can`t expect people to guess how you program the game. to waste huge amount of runes and time to build and raze a lot towers and in the end to say it not working in EOWCF

If its war why cant you attack your enemy then? IF ITS WAR WHY CANT WE DO THESE THINGS THEN?!? Please explain that to me.

[cRs]

Ffs why u play with the changes.. from ur own words when u brought this up

") Prosperity (EoWCF ONLY) - Increases income by 25%, Birth Rate by 20%, and draft speed by 25%
3) Offensive - Increases OME by 10% and enemy casualties on your offensive attacks by 15%

Note: The Prosperity KR can be initiated and completed at any time regardless of your stance (relations) however, if it is active and you are NOT in EoWCF you will receive no effects from it.

The goal here is to give t/ms something they can do outside of conflict that generates benefit for the kingdom, and give kingdoms another tool to help them recover rapidly on top of the EOW bonus.

So the goal here now is to... what? Screw kds who finished this expensive sh!t eowcf prep.
Great work what can I say...

[Korp]

Ffs why u play with the changes.. from ur own words when u brought this up

") Prosperity (EoWCF ONLY) - Increases income by 25%, Birth Rate by 20%, and draft speed by 25%
3) Offensive - Increases OME by 10% and enemy casualties on your offensive attacks by 15%

Note: The Prosperity KR can be initiated and completed at any time regardless of your stance (relations) however, if it is active and you are NOT in EoWCF you will receive no effects from it.

The goal here is to give t/ms something they can do outside of conflict that generates benefit for the kingdom, and give kingdoms another tool to help them recover rapidly on top of the EOW bonus.

So the goal here now is to... what? Screw kds who finished this expensive sh!t eowcf prep.
Great work what can I say...

You should learn the difference between Proposed age changes and Final age changes.

[cRs]

No.. u turned this game into genesis.. and now playing with words like eowcf is not war and that the rk is not needed into eowcf and so on. As I suggested X times start the damn genesis server and dont screw this game using it for failed tests.

[Korp]

No.. u turned this game into genesis.. and now playing with words like eowcf is not war and that the rk is not needed into eowcf and so on. As I suggested X times start the damn genesis server and dont screw this game using it for failed tests.

There is no prosperity ritual since that was in the Proposed changes, you do know what Proposed means dont you? If you look in the Final age changes you can see its changed to Affluent instead.

So if its war how come you cannot attack in eowcf cRs? Man, this is a huge bug that you cant attack in war, why havent you brought this earlier? Its a ****ing game breaking bug and nobody has said anything about it.

Also I am just a poster like others.

[Madchess]

Thanks for the clearification that it is ment for war not warending, I think I understood the other thing first.

it is an awefully lot of runes, but I guess it comes down to wether or not the kingdom can pull this off and if using the runes for something else would have been more benificial, it is the same for dragons, if you only fund 90% it will not have any effect.

[Manslayer]

Well they sure have nice ideologies.
25 prov kds. Full team work and 24/7 activity.
Just like I want world peace and go to space. Both of which according to devs are easy if we want it.

Lucky some of lives in the real world.
Tbh I think I speak of many that atm think you are clowns.
You remove the race that is now #1 played. You introduce paladins but no protection to them.
Dryads was an even bigger last beer age idea?

If you truly want to have 25 ppl kingdoms, more co operation and increase the competition then focus on the right things.
Bring a friend, easier recruting, easier coms and make it f**king responsive with HTML5.
My iPhone still cant write in the forum. Or maybe 1/100 works in game.

Make a plan and stick to it good or bad. But stop bullying the people who makes utopia great.
Its all about the community. Update the guide, make formulas and then we can take decisions based on that.
Updating gains and informing that this doesnt work a few days in, is just low. Could have waited to next age. Test stuff pls.

[cRs]

There is no prosperity ritual since that was in the Proposed changes, you do know what Proposed means dont you? If you look in the Final age changes you can see its changed to Affluent instead.

So if its war how come you cannot attack in eowcf cRs? Man, this is a huge bug that you cant attack in war, why havent you brought this earlier? Its a ****ing game breaking bug and nobody has said anything about it.

Also I am just a poster like others.

U can attack in eowcf, u can op, u can steal, u can explore, u can do whateva u want but with big penalty cuz why? YOU ARE IN WAR PROTECTION. So stop explaining a fcking mistake of the devs for not explaining this properlly... or atlleast find a good way of doing it