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  1. #1
    Strategy Moderator
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    New gains formula

    Can we figure the new hybrid gains out?

    Post your hit info including:

    Attacker land & NW
    Target land & NW
    Attacker kingdom land & NW
    Target kingdom land & NW
    Target GBP level & GS effect
    Racial & personality gains modifiers
    Aggressive or Fort stances
    Hostile or War relations
    Emerald Dragons

    Ideally a volunteer will also compile the data and try to help fit it or share the data with those interested in trying.

  2. #2
    Veteran RattleHead's Avatar
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    dont forget KRs, barrier has a GS-like effect, non?

    I'll do my best to remember to record these in future. Had a good one last night, ~100% NW but over 130% acres and crushed him for like 18% (of my land) gains... anyways purely anecdotal at this point :)

  3. #3
    Veteran RattleHead's Avatar
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    Attacker
    Prov NW - 83913
    Prov Land - 530
    KD NW - 1521047
    KD Land - 9940
    No racial bonus/penalty for gains

    Target
    Prov NW - 87498
    Prov Land - 509
    KD NW - 1661972
    KD Land - 10289
    GBP - None
    GS - 0
    No racial bonus/penalty for gains

    Stances: Normal - Normal
    Relations: Normal - Normal
    Dragons: None
    KR: None

    +/-: 0h

    GAINS: 61 acres

  4. #4
    Postaholic
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    I'll post mine from OOP, have not been taken data after since I've been bussy retaliating people who keep retaling my +50 acre retals with 25-30 acre retals of their own so since I'm grabbing every exchange I don't worry to much about the intel or formula.

    Opponent acres 467
    Opponent nw 62825 gc
    Opponent Kingdom 1162k
    Bonuses 5% from personality, -3,2% from Guard stations 1,05x0,968 = 101,64% of normal

    Own Acres 405 = 85% acres
    Own NW 60596 gc = 96% nw
    Own kingdom 189k = 20% nw estimated

    result 56 acres = 12%

    Opponents acres 405
    Opponents nw 23990 gc
    Opponent Kingdom 1099k
    Bonuses 5% from personality no detractors

    Own acres 405 = 100% land
    Own nw 60653 gc = 252,8% nw
    Own kingdom 189k = 20% nw estimated

    Result 25 acres = 6,2% also messed up return time to +11 hours of the first hit which gave an attack time of over 24 hours, maybe this is the thing that was adjusted in the formula I'm not totally sure.

    Ideally I'd like to try out a few attacks on growth kingdoms as that would allow me to likely hit up 150-200% land on 100% nw, but at the moment retals take priority, and I do not believe that I'll be able to figure out effects from 10 good hits in the middle of the curve, I use pen and paper when I go advanced.

  5. #5
    Veteran RattleHead's Avatar
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    Attacker
    Prov NW - 84429
    Prov Land - 497
    KD NW - 1617216
    KD Land - 10419
    No racial bonus/penalty for gains

    Target
    Prov NW - 88919
    Prov Land - 515
    KD NW - 1764089
    KD Land - 10475
    GBP - A little
    GS - 0
    No racial bonus/penalty for gains

    Stances (US-Them): Normal - Normal
    Relations (US-Them): Normal - Unfriendly
    Dragons: None
    KR: None

    +/-: 0h

    GAINS: 58 acres

  6. #6
    Veteran RattleHead's Avatar
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    Attacker
    Prov NW - 84196
    Prov Land - 497
    KD NW - 1617216
    KD Land - 10419
    No racial bonus/penalty for gains

    Target
    Prov NW - 74166
    Prov Land - 532
    KD NW - 1739037
    KD Land - 10709
    GBP - A little
    GS - 0
    No racial bonus/penalty for gains

    Stances (US-Them): Normal - Normal
    Relations (US-Them): Normal - Unfriendly
    Dragons: None
    KR: None

    +/-: 0h

    GAINS: 50 acres

  7. #7
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    Nice, recruit others to help ;)

  8. #8
    Postaholic
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    Got some more data that sems to indicate the nw factor is still the one to look out for.

    Opponent nw/acre relative 111%/115%

    Gains +5% no detractors
    Land of opponent 882 acres

    own land 776 acres

    Kingdom much bigger

    result 111 of 882 = 12,59%

    Opponent nw/acre relative 106/129%


    Gains +5% no detractors
    Land of opponent 1060 acres

    Kingdom much bigger

    own land 820 acres

    result 133 of 1060 = 12,55%


    129% land hardly affected gains negatively, and did not affect attack time at all. Even if gains are ment to drop at a higher acre diffrence they would still run into the hard cap of 20% of once own land before dropping noticeable. The hard cap for me on the second hit was 160 only 27 more than the actual gains while relative gains differed only by 0,04% of the targets land and might be explained with GB protection to minor to appear in SoT.

  9. #9
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    I wonder if it's possible to do a linear regression to find out the formula? Lol. Anyone good with econometrics?

  10. #10
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    To find the "province land factor", we need as many cases as possible where relative province NW, relative kingdom NW, and relative kingdom land are similar as possible but relative province land = target land/attacker land is A) large and B) small to different degrees.

    To find the "province NW factor", we need as many cases as possible where relative province land, relative kingdom NW, and relative kingdom land are similar as possible but relative province NW = [target NW]/[attacker NW] is A) large and B) small to different degrees.

    Going on the old gains formula on the wiki, relative kingdom NW (or land) might be ok if it's large (hitting into a kingdom with NW/land similar to yours may give you the same gains as hitting into a kingdom with NW/land larger than yours).


    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess
    Opponent nw/acre relative 106/129%


    Gains +5% no detractors
    Land of opponent 1060 acres

    Kingdom much bigger

    own land 820 acres

    result 133 of 1060 = 12,55%
    This could mean that hitting up in land (relative province land = target land/attacker land > 1) gives no minus.
    Last edited by yootohpeega; 20-06-2017 at 23:55.

  11. #11
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    Any more data?

  12. #12
    Postaholic
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    Opponent nw/acre relative 103/127


    Gains +5% no detractors
    Land of opponent 1474 acres

    Kingdom arround 30-40% bigger estimated

    result 185 of 1474 = 12,55%

    I think my own land was like 1160 or something but did not record it at that time, posting old data of course.

  13. #13
    Post Fiend joeblogs's Avatar
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    I had my own chart going of my kd but gave up when in war hits seem to not follow much logic.

    Prov in my kd was 512 land, vs 150% land 184% NW - NO GBP, gains 103 acres. This just told me to always hit up and to not really look at the land or NW matching.
    "Because of the implication"

  14. #14
    Postaholic
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    well that works too, I'm operating purely OOW thougth. Stuff like size diffrence and gb protection means little in a war so it is a totally diffrent senario.

    Hitting up to much seems to affect conversion rate, on my last hit going against 139% land with partly barrier and (partly) fortified resulted in only 5% specs converted while most of those hits I've posted intel on was close to or hitting the 20% conversion cap for war hero, gains on that last hit was arround 7-8% of the targets land, but still decent giving my size at that time, it also gave less credits than expected.

    Conversions could be affected by fortified thougth, I do not think I know all about that mechanic, max gaining for 10-12% of the targets land seems to work best.

  15. #15
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madchess View Post
    Conversions could be affected by fortified thougth, I do not think I know all about that mechanic, max gaining for 10-12% of the targets land seems to work best.
    Conversion is affected by gains mods(fort/gs/gbp/land\nw difference) and the def you are breaking. Therefore it's better to hit x1 a t/m or a tanky attacker/hybrid with army home(decent gain high conversion) than x4 army out attackers.

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