Some Changes to AW

[Bart of Sparta]

I'd like to propose some changes to AW. Currently AW is so devastating that having 1 bad war in say YR5-6 can incapacitate your KD competitively (I mean you can still war, but not really win) for the rest of the age. In the past a 2-week pump wasn't such a huge issue as ages last abotu 13-14 weeks. With that being 10 weeks now, taking that much time to pump is needlessly slowing down the game. Yes, again, I understand it IS possible to war without wpa, but you're simply not going to be as effective.

Proposal: Change AW so that it starts working like the old Amnesia: A large chunk of wizards are removed, but a significant amount of them will also come back over time. My proposal is:

Current damage on AW: 1.4%
New damage: 2% with 75% of those "killed" being fully removed for the next 24 hours, then slowly trickling back over the next 72 hours. This means that if you drop a mystic from 8 to 2 wpa, it will remain there for 24 hours then regain ((8-2)*0.75) / 72 = 0.0625 wpa/tick.

This means that AW has increased damage but now has to be used more strategically --> remove MS from the enemy KD for the next 48 hours etc etc.

Just a general idea, but as with most of my ideas it's worth pondering and see where we can go with it.

[Palem]

I think this is a good idea at least in theory. There's been a big push about boosting recovery but I think a better angle is simply making things less permantly damaging.

[Sheister]

I would recommend increasing the regain time to 72 hrs so that the wpa could be decreased withing the time of a given war. Thus, you are back in fighting shape by end of EOWCF but the effect lasts for the effective war.

Rename the op to kidnap wizards. Thus the wizards are "ransomed" back over time to explain it. In fact, it would be nice to make the returned wizards count ont he draft budget.

OOOO!! I like that better! So whatever the draft rate is the rate you buy back wizards at and charge 3X draft price per wizard! EoWCF, all wizards ransom back instantly and gold rains from heaven as a war reward.

the message would be something like "you kidnap XX wizards and leave a ransom note. Unfortunately YY number resisted to strongly and had to be killed."

[trekguy]

What about attackers or tm's who've been massacred into oblivion? Why just AW? If you're dropped from 8-2 and you go into the next war at 4 wpa, what part of rolling with the cards you've been dealt in the age is a bad thing? If you want to do something like this, I'd rather see wizards become a purchasable/trainable commodity much like thieves or maybe remove wizards from being a massacre target which I don't think will be popular.

[Coffee]

I like this angle. A longer period before recovery, per Sheister, makes sense to me.

Massacre is somewhat more costly to use to really drop a TM's WPA, and I'd say generally AW is the bigger threat. But perhaps massacres could be modified in a similar manner (x% of casualties are only injured and will return to your prov after they have recuperated).

The downside I see is wars where one side has clearly lost and is just stalling on WD. Going after wizards can be one of the most effective ways to get such a KD to pull out, since the permanence of the damage encourages more consideration of the age as a whole.

[Sheister]

OK, so as I reflect on this some more, it seems to me that wars either last 48 hrs or 7 days. Very few inbetweeners. So I think better timing on this is

EoWCF, all kidnapped wizards instantly returned and ransomed.

Everything else is 96 hrs, then ransom back at the rate of wizards kidnapped/draft rate at 5X draft price. If the province does not have the money to ransom back, no wizards ransom back. Wizards are ransomed back AFTER basic soldier drafting.

So, lets say someone is running normal draft (1% and 63 gc/soldier). Then gets Wizzard napped for 5K wizards. The pool of ransom wizards (which can add to native defensive WPA as they do add to the "Aura", but won't add to offensive WPA because they are not cooperative, and don't count against population) on the thief who napped them is now 3750. Those stay with the thief who napped them for 96 hrs and then are ransomed back at an initial cost of 37.5*(5*63) or 11,812 gc/tick transferred from the target province to the thief province. At EoWCF all wizards remaining are transferred back (so if war lasts less than 96 hrs, no cost to the napped province) and the 3750 *500 gc rains down on the thief province as a reward in EoWCF.

On the napped province side, this looks something like:

(Assume 5% alch sci, no homes 1250 acre province (so starting 4 wpa (a.k.a early mid age timeframe)) and 4 ppa.)

normal draft=1% of 5K peasants or 50 soldiers/tick drafted at 63 each. Normal draft costs are 3150, wizard additional costs os 11,812 for a total draft cost of 14962 that only kicks in AFTER hour 96. Income is 5000*2.75(14450)less wages of (assuming 3 tpa) 31,500 (at 200% wages). So to buy back wizards, the province would have to drop wages down to 50% (or get aid). This makes A LOT of sense (to me) and is a reasonable accomodation for the benefit of having wizards ready for OOW.

[JeffT]

It seems unlikely that there would be a long-term gc transfer from one province and/or kingdom to another based on an op.

One thing we've discussed in the past is the idea of boosting wizard gen in EOW based on the number of wizards you lost over the course of the war (which could help with recovery from both mass and AW, not just AW).

[Sheister]

It seems unlikely that there would be a long-term gc transfer from one province and/or kingdom to another based on an op.

One thing we've discussed in the past is the idea of boosting wizard gen in EOW based on the number of wizards you lost over the course of the war (which could help with recovery from both mass and AW, not just AW).

I anticipated it would take a lot of work to make it work (which I think is the sense you mean that).

Which I agree, but I think it would be a cool way to balance it.

[Mansoor]

Keep AW damage as it is but add that instead of all assassinations are killed you succeed with 50% which are permanently dead and the other 50% are injured and cannot participate in the current war. The injured wizards will return in EOWCF.

Massacres should be kept as it is. Massacres is a big risk in war and already not used that often. if a kingdom is strategical and use massacre they should benefit from it.

[MyNameIsMatija]

They should benefit from it during the war yeah. You sure you understand the proposed change?

[Persain]

Keep AW damage as it is but add that instead of all assassinations are killed you succeed with 50% which are permanently dead and the other 50% are injured and cannot participate in the current war. The injured wizards will return in EOWCF.

Massacres should be kept as it is. Massacres is a big risk in war and already not used that often. if a kingdom is strategical and use massacre they should benefit from it.

I like this concept, but my kd uses massacres a TON in war when we dont wanna grow. As soon as u have econ space you dont want to outgrow your wpa or kd size post war so 24/7 massacres start. So i'd probubly go with i'd go with a bit higher recovery and add in massacre damage