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Thread: Top feed

  1. #1
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    Top feed

    Just a quick question,

    The gains you get on top feeding in war seems to be unbalanced.

    Example:

    one prov is over 140% bigger then the other and has over 190% of the land. and the small one manage to grab 18.5% of his total acers in a singel hit.

    Im fairly new to the game (had a break for 15 years) but this seems really unbalanced?

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    Topfeeding is the new bottomfeeding. Join the revolution!

  3. #3
    Postaholic CannaWhoopazz's Avatar
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    top feeding always had the better gains, but I agree that it seems a little too strong. Range only seems to matter if the target is too small. "In range" now has a lower limit, but not an upper limit...
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    In war and Out Of War gains are different. Top feeding in war has always been powerful, it has been made slightly more powerful last age; it's strength this age may seem to have increased indirectly based on the new hybrid gains formula that factors in land size but it's actually just a function of the new formula not a specific buff to top feed war gains.

    @OP - In your post you use a lot of his/her identifiers that make it difficult to follow. Be a little more specific and I can try to help more
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    Probably worth mentioning that bottom feeding in war was also made more powerful last age :)

  6. #6
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    Tbh gains aren't bad at all, just have to find that sweet spot.
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    Okey.

    Prov x:
    480 acers
    Nw: 97000.

    Prov y:
    921 acers
    Nw 138700

    Prov X hit prov Y for 89 acers.

    That seems unbalanced for me?!

  8. #8
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    Those are similar to the gains last age. Ofc I can't post numbers to verify, but trust me. This age it's all about finding a good balance in setup.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffT View Post
    Probably worth mentioning that bottom feeding in war was also made more powerful last age :)
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foursup View Post
    Okey.

    Prov x:
    480 acers
    Nw: 97000.

    Prov y:
    921 acers
    Nw 138700

    Prov X hit prov Y for 89 acers.

    That seems unbalanced for me?!
    Gains in both directions curve down some until they hit the respective minimums, and the gains are applied as a % of target acres (with a cap in either direction) -- base gains are around 12.5%. Gains here were 9.6% of target acres. Retal would probably gain around the same -- roughly 40a.

  11. #11
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    Province x has a cap on gains that is 96 acres so if province x had hit a province at 2k acres gains would not have been much better.

  12. #12
    Post Demon Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    In war and Out Of War gains are different. Top feeding in war has always been powerful, it has been made slightly more powerful last age; it's strength this age may seem to have increased indirectly based on the new hybrid gains formula that factors in land size but it's actually just a function of the new formula not a specific buff to top feed war gains.

    @OP - In your post you use a lot of his/her identifiers that make it difficult to follow. Be a little more specific and I can try to help more
    I generally feel that topfeeding in war being too powerful is a problem because it contributes to the difficult of destroying offence, if you could actually keep a chained province small then they'll loose their offence but if they can keep cycling more acres than you can take off it they'll never loose the offence and personally I feel that there should be an effective way to target off that doesn't rely on the target being careless and leaving his offence home long enough for you to be able to NS it etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elldallan View Post
    there should be an effective way to target off that doesn't rely on the target being careless and leaving his offence home long enough for you to be able to NS it etc.
    NS hits armies home and away, but only specs and soldiers to any great degree. Most offenses are elites these days, so the damage NS can do to offense is minimal vs the cost. Propaganda is the one you can't leave your armies home for. But still, I said this in another thread; I get that the devs have changed the gains system to protect everyone's ability to "keep fighting" in war (nobody is taken completely out so everyone can still play Utopia), but they should now provide some new way for offenses to be held in check in light of the loss of deep chaining. Nothing as powerful, but options need to be there, otherwise as you said, there's a frustration level involved in never being able to really stop an enemy in war now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffT View Post
    Gains in both directions curve down some until they hit the respective minimums, and the gains are applied as a % of target acres (with a cap in either direction) -- base gains are around 12.5%. Gains here were 9.6% of target acres. Retal would probably gain around the same -- roughly 40a.
    The retal was 17. While the bottomfeed was maybe buffed last age, it seems like the new formula might have screwd something up. hard to know without knowing the formula but.

    When chained targets gains more back on 1 hit up over 140% nw and 190% land then 4 hits from ppl more in range it seems messed up does it now?

  15. #15
    Post Demon Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verminator View Post
    NS hits armies home and away, but only specs and soldiers to any great degree. Most offenses are elites these days, so the damage NS can do to offense is minimal vs the cost. Propaganda is the one you can't leave your armies home for. But still, I said this in another thread; I get that the devs have changed the gains system to protect everyone's ability to "keep fighting" in war (nobody is taken completely out so everyone can still play Utopia), but they should now provide some new way for offenses to be held in check in light of the loss of deep chaining. Nothing as powerful, but options need to be there, otherwise as you said, there's a frustration level involved in never being able to really stop an enemy in war now.
    Damage done to troops out with NS is minimal, most of the damage goes to troops home, and yes Elites are very resistant to NS. I think the move away from deep chaining is bad, and even with deep chaining you couldn't really touch off because of cycling acres, you usually always had enough to avoid desertions if you built incoming acres. I'd like deep chaining and the ability to counter off back. Plus if there was a way to actually touch offence there would be less need of deep chains.
    I disliked the old system(post removal of razes in war) because it just turned everything into a massive slugfest that removed tactical options. And I like the new system even less. Instead of making everything more softcore why not give respawning provinces back a non-trivial portion of the resources peak they had 48 hours prior to getting killed(something like a 20% respawn fee), and they respawn in eowcf.

    As a consequence it would also add more acres to the game whenever a province dies dies.
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