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Thread: Protectorates

  1. #1
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    Protectorates

    The idea is basically this.

    Kingdom A beats Kingdom B in war. Kingdom B is now listed as a protectorate under Kingdom A (in the extremely underutilized relations page). That means every time kingdom B wins a war, Kingdom A wins a bonus of 20% of Kingdom B's winnings.

    Important note: this doesn't cost Kingdom B anything. In a war win that would normally grant Kingdom B 10 points, they would still get 10 points, and kingdom A would get 2 points.

    In the event that 2 kingdoms war each other more than once, no protectorate bonus is granted and only the latest war is considered when deciding protectorate status.


    What good does this do? Well a few things
    1. This not only encourages good warring kingdoms to go after each other, it makes it beneficial to go after them as early as possible.

    2. The question of "who did you beat" becomes important beyond the scope of the last 4 weeks of the age, when good kingdoms have enough points to really make a big difference in points with their wins.

    3. This discourages the "lose an early war to bait easier wars" strategy because you'll be giving up, potenially, quite a lot of points to a potential competitor.

    Comments? Thoughts? Criticisms?
    Last edited by Palem; 08-06-2017 at 03:57.

  2. #2
    Forum Fanatic Pillz's Avatar
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    I like this.

  3. #3
    Veteran RattleHead's Avatar
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    Make it an option for the winning KD, they have until end of CF to decide, but it will default to Protectorate if nothing is changed. (They could choose a normal ending to War with no Protectorate involved)

    Add one cost to the winning KD if they become Overlord, a CF with the losing party.

    This CF is unbreakable except to the losing party, who may cancel it in attempt to break free of the Protectorate status with a WW vs their Overlord.
    -Can only be broken if KDs are in War Range.
    -Breaking this CF puts 17 hostile points up vs the Overlord KD (Overlord has button option for 24h min).
    -If KDs do not War immediately, Protectorate status remains until underling KD can get a WW vs Overlord.
    Last edited by RattleHead; 08-06-2017 at 03:22. Reason: formatting

  4. #4
    Forum Fanatic Pillz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    Make it an option for the winning KD, they have until end of CF to decide, but it will default to Protectorate if nothing is changed. (They could choose a normal ending to War with no Protectorate involved)

    Add one cost to the winning KD if they become Overlord, a CF with the losing party.

    This CF is unbreakable except to the losing party, who may cancel it in attempt to break free of the Protectorate status with a WW vs their Overlord.
    -Can only be broken if KDs are in War Range.
    -Breaking this CF puts 17 hostile points up vs the Overlord KD (Overlord has button option for 24h min).
    -If KDs do not War immediately, Protectorate status remains until underling KD can get a WW vs Overlord.
    lol

    Although I've pushed for post-eowcf protections too so. But still lol @ unbreakable CF and option to not take the bonuses. So funny

  5. #5
    Veteran RattleHead's Avatar
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    if you want to get perks off their WWs all age, I think its a fair trade off

    also lol if you dont really have anything to say, just dont say anything.

  6. #6
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    In theory having a CF situation is not only practical, but it makes sense. The problem is I can't think of a way to make it work. Every way I try to work it either ends up completely unfair for one of the kingdoms or it winds up being a really dumb application that doesn't work well for anyone.

    I figured the best way to resolve the problem was just to scrap the CF and let things play out like they normally would, giving the protectorate kingdom the chance to flip the protectorate status with another war.

  7. #7
    Veteran RattleHead's Avatar
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    guess its hard to strike a balance on such things...

    if you want to beat up the same KD all age, there is no point in getting the extra 20% WW bonus to begin with, so just dont go with a protectorate and go to town...

    if you want the extra WW bonus, you won't want to war the same KD again because it will be a waste of your bonus, so you might as well take the perma-CF, that comes with the button if the other KD does choose to break it

    taking the bonus would come with some risk to the winner. Knowing some KD will hold a grudge, while others will simply be unable or unwilling to do anything about it. The protection offered via CF to the loser is minimal, one KD, who in most cases ends up just growing away from you anyways, can't hit in.

    if the KDs who call themselves War KDs are slowly eliminating lesser KDs from their list of targets all age, woouldn't this nudge those better Warring KDs toward warring each other?

    and the potential vendetta CF breaks are just a little spice of life

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    the ONLY problem i have with this is what it could do to ww chart. read: Im #2-5 near the end of the age no on will war me. The WW chart is pretty close and the top 5 are all within a few points of each other. However i know 3 kds i've beaten are in war and they are all in the 30-40 ww rankings range. Since them winning their war wont launch them to the top 5 in the ww chart BUT will give me more points im very tempted to mass explore/whore land and get my econ up and rolling (to replace offensive losses) then wave into all 3 wars making sure the kds i fought get a war win. Doesnt matter if i get gb'ed because of it since u cant FORCE me to war you i've already **** played and gotten the kds i beat a war win and put myself in the #1 ww spot.

  9. #9
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    the ONLY problem i have with this is what it could do to ww chart. read: Im #2-5 near the end of the age no on will war me. The WW chart is pretty close and the top 5 are all within a few points of each other. However i know 3 kds i've beaten are in war and they are all in the 30-40 ww rankings range. Since them winning their war wont launch them to the top 5 in the ww chart BUT will give me more points im very tempted to mass explore/whore land and get my econ up and rolling (to replace offensive losses) then wave into all 3 wars making sure the kds i fought get a war win. Doesnt matter if i get gb'ed because of it since u cant FORCE me to war you i've already **** played and gotten the kds i beat a war win and put myself in the #1 ww spot.
    ^This. I think such mechanic will encourage hitting into someone else's wars just to get the bonus(20% might be a lot). Limit the 'protectorate' to only the last KD you beat in a war. Otherwise beating 4-5 ghetto KDs growing big and hitting into their next wars to ensure they will win may become a strong strategy.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    the ONLY problem i have with this is what it could do to ww chart. read: Im #2-5 near the end of the age no on will war me. The WW chart is pretty close and the top 5 are all within a few points of each other. However i know 3 kds i've beaten are in war and they are all in the 30-40 ww rankings range. Since them winning their war wont launch them to the top 5 in the ww chart BUT will give me more points im very tempted to mass explore/whore land and get my econ up and rolling (to replace offensive losses) then wave into all 3 wars making sure the kds i fought get a war win. Doesnt matter if i get gb'ed because of it since u cant FORCE me to war you i've already **** played and gotten the kds i beat a war win and put myself in the #1 ww spot.
    I have a wide variety of thoughts on this. Let's get some of my more admittedly scummier thoughts out of the way first
    1. What's stopping the #1 Kingdom from doing the same thing to counter you?

    2. What's forcing these kingdoms to surrender? If it's near EoA and I had a kingdom razing into my war I know I would be doing everything in my power to both not surrender and get help making the war somewhat fair again.

    3. This seems like an improvement for the kingdom in question vs not having these mechanics in play. Without a protectorate mechanic in the exact same scenario, your kingdom is left sitting there, powerless to rise up in the ranks. You'd be left (as I'm sure you have before) sitting on your hands and being bored for the last few weeks vs actually having a way to fight and do something

    On to my less deplorable thoughts
    4. There's currently nothing stopping war kingdoms that are stuck in EoA limbo from razing into their competitors wars and blocking them from moving up, but I have yet to see that happen. I think you underestimate the "Yea we ****played but oh well" portion of your scenario.

    5. You've just highlighted a great thing about my suggestion that I hadn't even thought of. It gives kingdoms that are high on the chart reason to engage each other. Sure, you can't force a war, but they'll have a tough time razing into other people's wars if you're waving them down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bo To View Post
    Limit the 'protectorate' to only the last KD you beat in a war. Otherwise beating 4-5 ghetto KDs growing big and hitting into their next wars to ensure they will win may become a strong strategy.
    If you limit it to the last kingdom that you earned then it's completely useless. Generally speaking, the losing kingdom doesn't recover faster than the winning kingdom.

    Also, unless we have drastically different definitions of ghettos, just beating 4-5 ghettos wouldn't be enough to top the charts. Even with outside help, a ghetto can't beat a top tier warring kingdom, which you'd need them to if you were going to take in enough points to win.

    There's also the fact that the warring community isn't likely just sit back and let large scale interference go unpoliced. Even the kingdoms you'd be helping would likely not be pleased with your involvement
    Last edited by Palem; 08-06-2017 at 12:46.

  11. #11
    Sir Postalot Ordray's Avatar
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    Maybe to prevent the possible abuse that you're talking about, block ops/attacks into wars that involve a protectorate? I don't think it super likely to be wide spread anyway, but that should stop it completely.
    Retired at one time but no longer retired.

  12. #12
    Forum Addict Bo To's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    If you limit it to the last kingdom that you earned then it's completely useless. Generally speaking, the losing kingdom doesn't recover faster than the winning kingdom.
    Depends on the war length and dmg dealt. After the ww buff(I don't remember did they change it for this age) the winner gets **** tons of free land.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    Also, unless we have drastically different definitions of ghettos, just beating 4-5 ghettos wouldn't be enough to top the charts. Even with outside help, a ghetto can't beat a top tier warring kingdom, which you'd need them to if you were going to take in enough points to win.
    If you win 0.2 points/ww from the ghettos(that's around the min. right?) lets assume that you beat 5 KDs and they make 3 ww after their defeats. Now you get 0.2 * 3 * 5 = 3 points which could be a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    There's also the fact that the warring community isn't likely just sit back and let large scale interference go unpoliced.
    You think? I don't rly want to test it :P.

  13. #13
    News Correspondent peteyb22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    The idea...
    This is pretty cool. It reminds me of how college basketball teams are selected into the tournament with the BPI formula based on your wins and your opponents wins. Could be interesting to include a factor even when losing to good warring kingdoms, which would basically be the BPI.
    - "He's kinda awesome..."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    I have a wide variety of thoughts on this. Let's get some of my more admittedly scummier thoughts out of the way first
    1. What's stopping the #1 Kingdom from doing the same thing to counter you?

    2. What's forcing these kingdoms to surrender? If it's near EoA and I had a kingdom razing into my war I know I would be doing everything in my power to both not surrender and get help making the war somewhat fair again.

    3. This seems like an improvement for the kingdom in question vs not having these mechanics in play. Without a protectorate mechanic in the exact same scenario, your kingdom is left sitting there, powerless to rise up in the ranks. You'd be left (as I'm sure you have before) sitting on your hands and being bored for the last few weeks vs actually having a way to fight and do something

    On to my less deplorable thoughts
    4. There's currently nothing stopping war kingdoms that are stuck in EoA limbo from razing into their competitors wars and blocking them from moving up, but I have yet to see that happen. I think you underestimate the "Yea we ****played but oh well" portion of your scenario.

    5. You've just highlighted a great thing about my suggestion that I hadn't even thought of. It gives kingdoms that are high on the chart reason to engage each other. Sure, you can't force a war, but they'll have a tough time razing into other people's wars if you're waving them down.
    1. nothing per say, but u also have ww with kds that are typically "known." Very few of the kds toping the ww chart in the past 10 ages have been completely unknown, and somebody like Bravehearts waving into WAR Monkeys end of last age or Monsters enTA interfering with bravehearts is going to lead to "revenge' the next age and 2-3 named kds all haveing HUGE issues with eachother. If in comparison braveheart had waved into a war between two 15 man kds because the kd they beat oop semi disbanded whose going to even be watching that or have friends to help stop that?

    2. nw forces a surrender...im not talking the last day of the age, 2v1 VERY leads to a nw win in 7 days if a nearly full kd is wavnig into a gheto war

    3. i agree it gives them something to do, but not something thats fun....if u want to fix boredom maybe we have the ability to force a war and max the meter at 50 points (2 or less waves by most kds) and Every 2 non intell ops are 1 meter point. Speed up geting into war/make it easier to take resources if u just want more wars (learns take 40% science but can only be done on a kd 90-110% nw?, not done while in war...boom kds gonna war instead of losing all their science). Perfect example is our war v spartans, its going to take weeks because 'war' didnt start after us hitting for 24 hours and them oping for 24 hours. Force that into war faster, wars over before ops just slowly tick away at damage...speed of MS should not dictate war length.

    4. i point to #1, just because its not done doesnt mean we should put in a mechanice that'd encourage it TO be don.

    5. all it does is make having allies even more important....if mechanics encourage **** play it requires a group of people to make sure that **** play isnt done...not something i think NEEDS to be done in the game. --espically froma developer/owner side. why would you want people to have to spend 80% of their time playing this game not loged into the game argueing over bs who hit who, when we could instead encourage more time spent in the game actually doing stuff like wars/kd ritual, attacking....


    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    If you limit it to the last kingdom that you earned then it's completely useless. .....

    There's also the fact that the warring community isn't likely just sit back and let large scale interference go unpoliced. Even the kingdoms you'd be helping would likely not be pleased with your involvement
    to these points i semi agree. last war only is useless as it means if u beat a kd with lots of war u dont want to war again till they finish their war. I think plenty of **** goes unpoliced espcially when a 25 man kds wars, wins, that kd falls to 20 and wars another 20 man kd in the 120-130 nw range. very little qq is gonna

  15. #15
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    NAP with protectorates for the remainder of age, and NAP into protectorate's wars.

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