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Thread: Prohibit adding provinces from 22 to 25 just to win a war

  1. #16
    Post Demon Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kido View Post
    Honestly dude, i have no idea what you have against the ideas i put up because you just seem to be attacking me and my kingdom in a personal way without actually adding anything to the suggestion. I'm more than willing to take on advice, and to hear your point out, but you haven't made it clear that you actually have a point, except that you believe that "ghettobashing" happens a hell of a lot.
    I have absolutely nothing against you or you kingdom, hell I don't even know who you or your kingdom is.
    Yes, ghettobashing happens alot, hell there used to be an entire crown(warwins) dedicated to the concept prior to this age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kido View Post
    No idea what you're saying here and it doesn't really add or provide a counter to the point i was making... would you like to try again?
    Oh and here I thought that you were just being snarky so I responded in kind. But the core of the issue is that you're arguing to counter an issue which only exist because certain kingdoms are hell bent on making it exist. Stop landdropping(which when intentional ought to be considered a bannable offence) and trying to stay at 400a and it won't be an issue that needs to be fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kido View Post
    Does that make one of them not a ghetto because they're able to use that exploit?
    If you're intentionally trying to abuse the quirks of a game mechanism to trick other people into warring you then yeah odds are that you're not a ghetto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kido View Post
    I mean i was drawing attention to the fact that in the first few weeks of the age when people are looking for oop wars and maybe a follow up 2nd or 3rd, then Kingdoms might be small and the addition of a few extra multis/invites could be taken into account, especially if the war goes on for longer than min time.
    This problem you perceive is a problem that can only exist if a war drags for significantly longer than mintime.
    Because protection whilst in war is 72 hours so even if you create the extra provinces during the first hour then it takes 24 hours more than mintime for them to come oop, and any provinces created before the war should obviously be included into your calculations so cannot be considered an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kido View Post
    Also, my apologies that this is a strategy game where people have different playstyles,
    Ghettobashing isn't a playstyle, it's a plague.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kido View Post
    you should definitely go KD by KD sending out strategy tips and tell people how the game is supposed to be played properly - maybe even start livestreaming on youtube.
    My my, how salty :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Kido View Post
    but i'd probably say that there are a lot of kingdoms in the stay small and pump for war segment.
    Yes there are, but then that makes this whole issue is a self-created issue by their conscious attempt to stay small and ghettobash.
    Because any organized kingdom intentionally trying to stay that small is most likely trying to ghettobash, otherwise what's your objection to grow a little?
    I do think that kingdoms instead should be encouraged to grow into the 1k-1.5k acres average range where having a largely undertrained 400a prov or two popping out of 72 hours of protection wouldn't be a significant issue.
    Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elldallan View Post
    I have absolutely nothing against you or you kingdom, hell I don't even know who you or your kingdom is.
    Yes, ghettobashing happens alot, hell there used to be an entire crown(warwins) dedicated to the concept prior to this age.


    Oh and here I thought that you were just being snarky so I responded in kind. But the core of the issue is that you're arguing to counter an issue which only exist because certain kingdoms are hell bent on making it exist. Stop landdropping(which when intentional ought to be considered a bannable offence) and trying to stay at 400a and it won't be an issue that needs to be fixed.


    If you're intentionally trying to abuse the quirks of a game mechanism to trick other people into warring you then yeah odds are that you're not a ghetto.

    This problem you perceive is a problem that can only exist if a war drags for significantly longer than mintime.
    Because protection whilst in war is 72 hours so even if you create the extra provinces during the first hour then it takes 24 hours more than mintime for them to come oop, and any provinces created before the war should obviously be included into your calculations so cannot be considered an issue.


    Ghettobashing isn't a playstyle, it's a plague.


    My my, how salty :P


    Yes there are, but then that makes this whole issue is a self-created issue by their conscious attempt to stay small and ghettobash.
    Because any organized kingdom intentionally trying to stay that small is most likely trying to ghettobash, otherwise what's your objection to grow a little?
    I do think that kingdoms instead should be encouraged to grow into the 1k-1.5k acres average range where having a largely undertrained 400a prov or two popping out of 72 hours of protection wouldn't be a significant issue.
    If people are encouraged to grow to 1k-1.5k before their 1st or second war, then ghettobashing will occur at a higher acreage, because new/inexperienced players value land more than NWPA, so you'll have ghetto kingdoms explode up and still be targeted. Memos won't work to combat ghettobashing because people who do it are scum already. But it seems with the removal of the crown for war wins the devs are moving to make it less rewarding to play like that. But my point about different playstyles is more focused on forcing people to grow outside war rather than just growing from war. War is where i personally find enjoyment in the game, the other bits are... slow. I don't know if you can only count the min-time wars when considering the issue. There's a bunch more support for Econ with recent changes, so its easier to fight long wars. At 5-6 days and extra 3 provs that might be UB upon exit can make a significant difference. I mean it will of course be way less of an issue by mid age. But theres going to be a first 3 weeks next age that this kind of thing might come up again... Maybe start of age land or land gifts should be adjusted so its easier to reach higher acreage and nw. Then new players starting after the start of age, begin with the usual 400 acres. Just an idea, but 400 is baseline, and easy to stay around that area. 700 - 1k acres might be harder to stay up.

  3. #18
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    I'm not opposed to removing the ability to add players to a kingdom during war. We had a brief discussion on this in the past, it was passed on I believe due to the existence of 72 hour protection for new provinces that are added during a war among other things. I will add this to our list to revisit for next age. Part of the reason it was also turned down was the concept that provinces that are added during a war are 400 acres, with no scientists, essentially zero wpa, and not much ability to train a tpa that will be able to do much. They can only train 5000 max troops split between offense and defense. While this could be a potential real province during the first 2 weeks of the game, a 400 acre province with 5000 troops total, no science, no tpa and no wpa should not really be much of a threat anytime after that.

    But again, I am open to hear the other side of the argument and we can put this on the discussion list for next age.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    I'm not opposed to removing the ability to add players to a kingdom during war. We had a brief discussion on this in the past, it was passed on I believe due to the existence of 72 hour protection for new provinces that are added during a war among other things. I will add this to our list to revisit for next age. Part of the reason it was also turned down was the concept that provinces that are added during a war are 400 acres, with no scientists, essentially zero wpa, and not much ability to train a tpa that will be able to do much. They can only train 5000 max troops split between offense and defense. While this could be a potential real province during the first 2 weeks of the game, a 400 acre province with 5000 troops total, no science, no tpa and no wpa should not really be much of a threat anytime after that.

    But again, I am open to hear the other side of the argument and we can put this on the discussion list for next age.
    I do think that at times kingdoms will add provinces to aid in a war, especially early age. But when looking at any change like this you have to look at both sides of the ledger. Sure disallowing provinces added during war would prevent folks from utilizing this strategy -- which is at least a little unfair -- BUT this also makes it more annoying and harder for lower tier kingdoms to add provinces and players that they desperately need. Maybe someone wants to join NOW and if you have to wait until the war is over you lose that player? Not great and IMO the harm in this change would outweigh the benefit. Lets not make it harder to start playing, the 72 hour protection window in war is enough to mitigate abuse.

  5. #20
    Post Demon Elldallan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKremlin View Post
    I do think that at times kingdoms will add provinces to aid in a war, especially early age. But when looking at any change like this you have to look at both sides of the ledger. Sure disallowing provinces added during war would prevent folks from utilizing this strategy -- which is at least a little unfair -- BUT this also makes it more annoying and harder for lower tier kingdoms to add provinces and players that they desperately need. Maybe someone wants to join NOW and if you have to wait until the war is over you lose that player? Not great and IMO the harm in this change would outweigh the benefit. Lets not make it harder to start playing, the 72 hour protection window in war is enough to mitigate abuse.
    Yeah I agree, the case where somebody hasn't had the chance to grow(as opposed to choosing not to) to a size where this wouldn't be an issue AND 72 hour protection isn't enough of a disincentive is such an incredibly small niche that I think it's not worth inconveniencing new provinces more than they already are.
    Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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