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Thread: Razing into an open war.

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meep View Post
    The aggressor does not get to tell the person they robbed what response is and isn't acceptable.
    At some point they do.

    If a guy tries to mug you and you beat the piss out of him, yea, he had that coming and there's no right to complain about anything.

    If a guy tries to mug you, and you beat him to death on the street, grab his ID, find his home, break in, tie up his wife, round up his children and starts brutally torturing the children to death in front of the mother and then after all the children are dead he takes the wife and as he's raping her he cuts off her head with a steak knife he found in the kitchen and then sets the severed head on a spike in the now destroyed families lawn....yea I'd say that the person being mugged crossed a line and wronged the mugger.

  2. #122
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    that is a real world situation... not utopian. The laws are set in both "worlds" to handle things and situations differently. Please let me know where their is a utopian police station in which i can report a kingdom robbing me and then have it handled in court... oh wait there isn't one.

    so when the rules of said game allow for razes and raze kills and the motto of the game is defend yourself... as you see many claiming the top should defend their gc better... same argument can be made that those stealing should defend their land better.

    It almost sounds like it is ok for someone who gets bottomfed on to use FG and razes to hit the big guys but when the small guy goes aggro the raze tactic is not ok.

    Know your limits... figure out who you are robbing from and pay attention. If you wish to ignore those factors the repercussions are on yourself and yourself alone.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    At some point they do.

    If a guy tries to mug you and you beat the piss out of him, yea, he had that coming and there's no right to complain about anything.

    If a guy tries to mug you, and you beat him to death on the street, grab his ID, find his home, break in, tie up his wife, round up his children and starts brutally torturing the children to death in front of the mother and then after all the children are dead he takes the wife and as he's raping her he cuts off her head with a steak knife he found in the kitchen and then sets the severed head on a spike in the now destroyed families lawn....yea I'd say that the person being mugged crossed a line and wronged the mugger.
    You have interesting sexual fantasies.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squee311 View Post
    that is a real world situation... not utopian. The laws are set in both "worlds" to handle things and situations differently. Please let me know where their is a utopian police station in which i can report a kingdom robbing me and then have it handled in court... oh wait there isn't one.

    so when the rules of said game allow for razes and raze kills and the motto of the game is defend yourself... as you see many claiming the top should defend their gc better... same argument can be made that those stealing should defend their land better.

    It almost sounds like it is ok for someone who gets bottomfed on to use FG and razes to hit the big guys but when the small guy goes aggro the raze tactic is not ok.

    Know your limits... figure out who you are robbing from and pay attention. If you wish to ignore those factors the repercussions are on yourself and yourself alone.
    Just so we're clear, I present a simple, albeit horrible, example in which social protocol, which has no written rules, does have it's reasonable limits and you respond by telling me that I'm wrong because there are no written rules for social protocol but warn players to know their limits.

    Are we even living in the same reality? Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Meep View Post
    You have interesting sexual fantasies.
    Don't tell Taylor

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    Just so we're clear, I present a simple, albeit horrible, example in which social protocol, which has no written rules, does have it's reasonable limits and you respond by telling me that I'm wrong because there are no written rules for social protocol but warn players to know their limits.

    Are we even living in the same reality? Lol

    Don't tell Taylor
    Hey you never know, you might be mugging a guy whose wife was raped and murdered by a mugger.

    Maybe his repressed rage comes out and he murders you and your family.

    It doesn't matter if the guy is a moron for walking down the street in harlem with a million dollars in cash, if you don't mug people, you're generally better off for it.

    But especially you're better off if you don't mug the crazy guy walking down the street with a gun and a sign that says 'rob me and I'm going to ****ing murder you and your whole family'

  6. #126
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    Pamela.... you have some serious Batman issues to attend to...
    “The only person you are destined to become is the person you decide to be.”
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  7. #127
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    If a guy trespasses on land that has a sign saying "trespassers will be shot" then he is chancing being shot. If you do not want the chance of being shot you avoid it.

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    Wow, managed to stir quite the emotions with my post.

    I'm sorry guys, all I wanted was to find out if there's a way to get some "divine" intervention into the situation. It seems the scenario is perfectly fine based on utopian laws (if we assume the code of conduct is that) so let's leave it at that.

    The bonus conclusion I got was that not everyone likes an egotistical psychopath (I'm guessing that's what Bart's in-game persona is supposed to be), even if it's for pretend; but on the other hand there's a lot of people that agree with that viewpoint.
    It was an entertaining story nevertheless.

    Remember, your actions always have consequences so be prepared to deal with them.

    Good night and good fight.

  9. #129
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    I agree that it's best to just avoid entirely. If a guy is holding a sign that says "if you mug me I'll destroy you and your family" it would most definitely be to your advantage to just go ahead and avoid mugging that guy. My point is that holding that sign doesn't mean that enacting the brutal horrors on the guys family is ok.

    You can't just tag up "Will raze kill provinces in our news feeds" and then expect everyone just sit back and take in silence while you raze kill people that had the nerve to grab your intel.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm of the opinion that if it doesn't break the rules (as in the official rules), then players are free to do whatever they want. But there does become a point at which your actions become ridiculous. Actively punishing people for what amounts to simply playing the game with no ill-intent directed at you or trying to pull anything shady is just downright dumb.

    You are trying to prep for war and someone robs you too deep and causes legitimate issues for your kingdom? Sure, taking some retaliatory action isn't unreasonable.

    Raze killing a kingdom into war because they stole money from you? Ehhhh, I wouldn't say Bart is being completely unreasonable, but we're toeing the line into ridiculous land.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illy View Post
    The bonus conclusion I got was that not everyone likes an egotistical psychopath (I'm guessing that's what Bart's in-game persona is supposed to be), even if it's for pretend
    NAILED IT!

    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    Raze killing a kingdom into war because they stole money from you? Ehhhh, I wouldn't say Bart is being completely unreasonable, but we're toeing the line into ridiculous land.
    What he should have done was left the provs on less than 50 acres...then Bart wouldn't be a killer!
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  11. #131
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    LOL @ anyone surprised by Bart being Bart.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulate View Post
    LOL @ anyone surprised by Bart being Bart.
    I check forum few times per age and every time its same story with Bart just different victims. I cant understand why ghetto monarch don't read forum and know what to expect in advance.
    If they dont bother to read forum why bother to start topic?
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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palem View Post
    Just so we're clear, I present a simple, albeit horrible, example in which social protocol, which has no written rules, does have it's reasonable limits and you respond by telling me that I'm wrong because there are no written rules for social protocol but warn players to know their limits.

    Are we even living in the same reality? Lol



    Don't tell Taylor
    My claim was the governing body... which is the rule system in utopia govern the limitations of reactions w/o repercussions, Just as the system of laws in each country dictates the same thing. SO your real world scenario has its limitations to the real world which do not equate the game situation we are in.

    You gave an extreme situation to account for an extreme situation. But let look towards Hammurabi in which you stole and your hand was cut off and if you decided to steal again and again you were killed. That scenario more along runs line with how the utopian rules are laid out.


    its pretty simple steal if you feel lucky... don't cry when you get punished for it.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystyka View Post
    If you are a "top" kingdom then you can't be robbed. You could live this illusion, but you're just lam3 ... Don't talk about things you don't understand. Having 10 bil gcs and very low tpa don't make you a good player. Just a big n00b living in a dream. So, nite! Talk to you in the morning (if any).
    Standard war kds train up to 4-6 peasents per acre. Geting the gc to do that is realitvely easy and can be done during a single fort stance if you train leets first. They aim for lets say 10 epa, 8 dsepc/acre 2 tpa 2 wpa and 5 ppa is very reasonable to get that pump done and you never have to sit with more than 1 million gc on hand. Your 1000 acre prov could even hold and extra 600k gc for "dragons". So lets see see stay under 1.5 million gc at 1000 acres easy, no real risk of stealing, dont need that much GC on hand....no worries

    When you compare that to say a top kd who is say 3000 acres right now a compareable amount of "Gc they need to stay under" is 4.5 million on hand? They'll also need 1.8 million gc extra for a dragon. Thats to be similarlly trained as a war kd. Factor in that their training goal are often 0 ppa or lower and they tyically need to hold onto 2-3 times what a normal war tier would need to train+dragon. However when those provs cant stock more than 1 million gc before geting rob'ed its like the war kds geting robed everytime they save up more than 250k gc. You try that, have 3 of your provs loging ni 5 times a day to train and STILL geting their gc stolen.

    thats not even adressing the issue of...top kds train lower, training lower means losing gc can mean losing a war before it even starts. You save up 8 of the 25 million gc your gonna need only to lose 7 million to a kd and watch how annoyed they get and how unsympathetic they are when another kd starts razing you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Illy View Post
    Wow, managed to stir quite the emotions with my post.

    I'm sorry guys, all I wanted was to find out if there's a way to get some "divine" intervention into the situation. It seems the scenario is perfectly fine based on utopian laws (if we assume the code of conduct is that) so let's leave it at that.

    The bonus conclusion I got was that not everyone likes an egotistical psychopath (I'm guessing that's what Bart's in-game persona is supposed to be), even if it's for pretend; but on the other hand there's a lot of people that agree with that viewpoint.
    It was an entertaining story nevertheless.

    Remember, your actions always have consequences so be prepared to deal with them.

    Good night and good fight.
    Yea bart over responds, but that doesnt change the fact that in my kds prep alone i have 1 human whose going to war on 7-8 epa becauase he got robed and another one whose only going to be 10 epa because he had to train tickly while the kd we are fighting will likely sit on 15-16 epa kd wide.


    Note im not saying ALL gc robbing is bad, i've personally lost like 400-500k gc in the past 36 hours. Which hurts, is annoying and slows war prep but its not like losing 70-80% of the gc your going to need to train up. losing that much gc is literally saying "hey i want your gc i dont care if it costs you your war". So when a kd responds with "lol you took our gc which could cost us a war, how about i just cost YOU a war" why is it surpising.
    Last edited by Persain; 20-06-2017 at 21:00.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystyka View Post
    the point is: if someone can pk you with raze you should be able to do the same on your targets in war.
    This is the problem
    That makes sense, but mechanics aren't in your favor. It's a fair suggestion.

    I'm not here to grill you or your kingdom. It's a lesson learned; doesn't mean you have to capitulate.
    You seem like nice enough people with a few that underestimated the price of stealing. Meep might be saying with friction what the basic problems are:

    Top kingdoms arrange CFs with each other. These CFs are arranged for various reasons, but one is the ability to pump.
    Top kingdoms traditionally draft for war to virtual negative peasants per acre. They maximize troop counts which results in negative income. The provinces survive off the residual income(the gold reserves).

    By stealing enough gold from top kingdoms they're forced to draft shallower. This can result in their intended targets having higher total troop counts or the ability to force bankruptcy before war even starts. Gold is an essential metric in top style warring with crown contention on the line.

    Perhaps someone already explained this in the several pages I've yet to read. I don't play in top kingdoms but I understand their function and objectives. Beyond fear and anger is understanding.

    Consider your options and don't resist communication. Bart can screw you in diplomacy, as can many top kingdoms. The point is to learn a new aspect to Utopia. You might even like it. - Some of the players posting here have a history of bringing their share of misery and been PK'd themselves. Don't let it discourage you. Embrace the learning curve and you'll be better for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
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