The Future of Utopia

[null]

Hello, old King null here (I know nobody remembers me, I still present myself like that).

I did quit Utopia like 7 years ago. Now this age I got invite from friend and I play again, I'm not sure, for how long.. this age only or couple of more.

Why did I quit?
I always wanted to play as monarch. I ruled noob kingdoms, gave my best to get boys (and girls) warwins. Was lot of fun and manymany nights no sleep, had to micromanage a lot - orders, thinking and so on, that how to force opponents to withdraw. How to teach those noobs up. Lot of hard work....
I made even tutorials for pimp and angel... really nuts. :D
At one point I got tired.. I felt it takes too much from me.

Now:
I see only 166 Kingdoms left, soon 165 .. I see one Kingdom had 3 memebers, now there 2. Soon 1.. and then its 165.
Slowly Utopia is dieing out from players.

So why it happens?
I can tell you: there are two types of players:
1) advanced, active, dedicated, "no-lifers" (kidding)
2) just for fun, not so active, noobs, "real-lifers".

It happens with every site - a portion of people in community start to dominate there game, site or what so ever - and the people who take it more easy, find, its not so fun anymore. Or worst: they dont have even chance to learn the fun.

The problem with Utopia is --- when people come to play it, they need to know so much at once, to stay alive, must log-in a lot, to not be plundered and so on, you understand me, I know.
Also they have to understand, if want to get in game to somewhere, must sacrifice life.

Is the game ment to control life? I dont think so.


I really suggest you to start another server --- for the group 2 -- for noobs and those, who get it more easy.

Maybe give there 2-3-4-6 times longer turns? More gold (and runes)? A bit smaller Kingdoms?
*** 2-3-4-6 times longer turns = less problems - less late, less ops, less attacked by --- that rule would keep those "elites" stay away from server - since elites want fast action.
*** More gold (and runes) = more to build, more to plunder, more fun, gold is fun.
*** Smaller Kingdoms = Can build up active core better, I remember times, I just joined some random noob kingdoms.. I accepted the challenge. Sometimes I had to waste many ages to clean up the place over and over and over - I have somewhere screenshots saved.. i striped out the killed provinces, there were left like half.
On other hand.. smaller kingdoms are then again bad, when half of KD goes inactive. So maybe balance it after 1-2 weeks inactivity with auto-collapsings?

Why Kingdoms ahve to kill out joined players? Why game is made so, that must elimiate players from game and then at one point we find, there are not enough players anymore?
It is because top is dictating the evolution of game.

7 years ago.. people joined game.. they got interest.. but they didnt take game so serious.. game.. and they got PKed.. when they remember, ah, i registered to game and so on... they log in.. some find, they are PK-ed... some find so much whine in mail, they dont bother to read the messages even.. their head starts to hurt. And they log out again.

Im now 31 years old.. I played utopia since when i was like 16? Mehul was around and so on.. Green, red, blue servers.
Now Im more mature and understand more the Internet and games and much more.. the psychology..

About 7 years ago i had thoughts, i want to buy this game myself, to get it fair and fun again.. but had no money and i just did quit.. i had thoughts, what are the problems here.. why people quit and how to fix that all..

The problem is, yes --- top kingdoms and top warring kingdoms - make game very fast, lot of pressure and so on. Everything must be very accurate and on time.
We cant get much new players like that.. + those, who are here already, they want rest too.. and like that the community dries out.

"Noob-KD-s" want to play same like top-KD-s .
It is all so wrong.. Since newcommers potentionally join the ghettos. What ghettos do, when people join game and they are not giving max? They kill them out. Because - that is the era of Utopia, now.. must have strong order or get the f out. The "bottom" should actually have more chilling game - take it more easy. That aah, was ianctive 2 days, alright. good you still came back! --- that kind of attitude.. or 4-5 fays was away.. glad you are back!

Time is the keyword. We need to see the bigger picture, to understand the youth. Many play - League of Legends - for example, even i have there account. I just play it like couple of games in week or even rarely, last time i played 2 weeks ago.
Im active there, I still have skills with my champs. And nobody kills me out from game because i log in less that those, who are in Diamonds n stuff. I even dont stress about that if im only in silver 1 (i play mostly only one champ, lol .. Zilean.)

Please think about another server for people, who want game more easy.. where less pressure.. make it fair.. and all active and pro players, who want to dominate hard - please stay away there, OK?

You need to understand, there has to be another area, where newcommers can get their ABC and when they feel they need some more excitement, they can join the hardcore server. Noobs and chillers need the plunders and more less active kingdoms for fun - so they dont get punished + that there are actually provs with 3 mils and so on - it is so happy to find random province which has so much gold on it.. if there are so few players left in game.. everybody seek the gold, everybody plunder/steal, everybody run over the same provinces over and over. There actually is need for server where it is OK that there are inactives around. I dont know how to express it. But I beleive many of us remember the old times, where every noob was able to find good plunders and didnt get any retals because of that.. or when got retals, it was like 2-3 attacks -- not more - because the retalers just were not so hardcore themselves.. hmm.. Anyways, yes - another server has to be noobfriendly and active veterans should stay away from there with pro-gamestyle, to give group 2 more space for their dream-world.

15 years ago -- there was 100k players. (random numbers)
Now we have Internet everywhere, smartphones n stuff --- the vision should be that game carries millions of players... Imagine.. millions of players.. huhuhuhuuh (its an utopia)

Utopia is great game, unique, we should work together to get this place crowded a lot. Ofcourse we cant call people to game, if it has hardcore demands. You know, I would feel like im criminal, if i call anybody here to play and the player sees it has so many demands - they just try and log out, cause they think this game is for geeks only (for nolifers)..
People are very busy and so on - game can be entertaining, if it would be more noobfriendly or when players have more time for their life.

24 hours in a day. Currently ticks are after every 1 hour..
24 is interesting number.. Ticks can be 1 2 3 4 6 12 and 24.
1 is too fast for "group 2", definetly. 12 and 24 are too slow.
2-3 = 12 or 8 ticks in a day = can attack once in a day. Then its more like "you need to be active in game".
4 is bad to follow in clock.

6? Then it would be 4 ticks in a day. One attack is like 2-3 reallife days then. I think.. that is not so slow, actually. Game has just other dimensions...... Then the game point is not to war a lot.
6 I personally like most. intra-KD attacks should be faster, obviously, if there are problems in Kingdom, the removing has to be somehow faster. But not that fast, that "chilling provinces" miss the killing - you know, there can be bad rulers too, who just go nuts and start to build elite-KD-s in "noob-server".

Lets call it better : Time-friendly server.
Because i dont believe those inactives and "noobs" are stupid people --- they just cant keep with all those demands up.. need more time to learn the fun.

Thanks,

Teno

[null]

OK, i finished the edits. Now all said, I think. Sorry about my weird English. Good luck.

[Palem]

If it makes you feel better, I remember you

[null]

Yay! I guess this kind of bad English is hard to forget, lol ... I remember my English and long stories back then were the issue and real head-ache.. Not much haven't changed, eh? :D

[Korp]

The issues in this is that dividing the playerbase is a doomed tactic. Its is small as it is and it wouldnt really survive having it split.

[null]

There is no "split".

Because: Who are here --- they like this pressure game. They can play slower server too, but they dont get the satisfaction from there.
Imagine yourself, if attacks are 2-3 days. Do you have nerves to play that server or you still look instead to faster game?

What newcommer wants?
First he wants to learn the game.
Second - to learn the community, find friends and so on.
OK, he registeres to -- "Server for newcommers", first. He finds it is slow, wants more action. What he does? He registeres to faster game too.
So there he gets beat up and in mean while his account in slow server have had some improvements. And he plays that game.

I think sort of as businessman too - for gameowners -- they want the more players as possible. To get clicks (ads) and to get people buy features.

So ... At one point slow server people move on to faster server, slowly. When they feel they are ready for that.. Give another try, another and another.

And what is the problem, if there are one hardcore server with small community and other with 10-100 times bigger community? Where might come potentional new active players? I dont see anything bad here. Mechaincs are same, but people just have different times for their life.

And if elite players go to slow server and there comes pro plays --- its not bad neither (if i watch to future), it is still softer than like it is now. So... I think there is more pros than cons with that...

The slower game goes a bit different strategy -- attacking/warring is slower.. but to get to top, must calculate better, think throught more mathematical, there is more time to think and make preparations. More inactives, more gold, more luck.

There goal would be same - to be biggest and strongest, but to achieve it, must act differently. The wars are not with timing accuracy in short periods, there wars actually are tougher - cause opponents have more time to react.
I think it is actually cool, too.

I think I am good chess player. I play good, when I have lot of time to think my moves..
But when its 5-10 minutes games in chess.. I lose..

If there are players, who need more time for their moves.. why to invite them play game.. where they will lose (faster player have much more advantages over them)?

[null]

Also about chains ---- Attacks are 2-3 days -- its a long time. In that time victims of pro chainers can get help and pay back. ;)

So.. If anybody attacks out from province, the attack goes 2-3 days, there is now big worry, that attack takes lot of time, bigger chance to get caught, that armeis are out. Alright. Somebody attacks now the province.. aaand.. The attacker has to worry himself, now too.. that his armies are out 2-3 days..

A bit different game in strategy, more like chess, now.. think more carefully, what to do.. risks are wider in time.



And another feature should be added for "timefriendly-server":
UNDO

Since ticks are longer and if something got messed-up, noob should have chance to UNDO the trainings or buildings (as many as much he did in that tick). Since if he gets it, he did something totally wrong, he might quit again, cause he knows, the ticks are slow and it takes forever to fix the mistakes.
UNDO-s have to be available only if there are no interacts from other provinces -- including inteling. As soon as someone intels or ops province, UNDO-s should not be available anymore. Also UNDOs are available only for changes the player did in that certain tick is running.

[Bart of Sparta]

Agree with many of your points there. It really takes a herculean effort to keep a KD together of good players that don't want to be active but also not raped the entire age. I tried it last age but we got like 50 times in the first few days of the age. Only option you have then is contacts + growth + CFs --> but most people don't have that. I have 15 players here who simply wouldn't play if not for the laid-back experience I offer.

[StratOcastle]

I'm in one of the 3 player kingdoms.

As you teach, and I know it's grueling, there's only one of me. What I mean is I can play up as hard as I want, but I don't. I follow a set of challenge idioms to reduce my impact on casual player syndrome. I only retaliate. If given a choice I retaliate the highest ranked or most reputable kingdom. I attempt not to hit sensitive targets like t/ms or critically pumped attackers.

I'm not trying to influence others to play the way I play, but to invoke a moral compass on themselves. You can see a struggling kingdom. At worst I might message a kingdom and offer to spar with them so they can see how a confident player goes about their business.

We are small enough as a player base to share some loose etiquette without too much mechanical tweaking by the devs. Minds might be hard to change, but it's actually easier to walk softly among the frail than to finagle mechanical answers. I do like your thought process and encourage you.

Welcome back.

[null]

Thanks for welcomes.

Yesyes, I understand you. I am experienced player (tho some things are very new and some things i needed to ask for remindings - i still felt like noob, when i came back),
I have time for game.

We know what game this utopia is. We are nuts, we enjoy this pressure and on time orders following.
Game is like it is.

Where are new players? Where are they? Why community shrinking, not growing?
We can speak here egoistic, that they are losers and soft-asses.. Dem nubs, raze the nubs - joke like that.

But to be honest, at one moment elders find game getting boring - all the time same Kingdoms, same faces. People get older, people get tired, people get kids, get married. People get succesful in life, get busy. Find other hobbies, games.

Nowadays not many make traditionals out of war (because war is actually protection - KD-s come out from war and they seek fast new war - and if to enter war, better to be not landfat). Not enough plunders around (without punishments - big KD-s have like 3 mils laying around, you only touch it, you get punished + all your KD nags with you, cause they get punishment also). That is not "that" fun anymore.
Think, what ghettos feel, when like 100 active advanced KD players are out of war and they all sneak for easy science or plunders.. All the time someone is intelling and when somebody does a little msitake in ghetto, that mistake is noticed quickly - inactivity helpers (bots/programs/sites), nw/a and so on - everykind of indicators to sort out, where might squeeze something (from bottom) . If to touch strong KD-s, then may come nagging again - that dont touch those KD-s, they may mess up our plans and so on.

Every game should think about three things:
1) that elders are satisfied and they stay in game, and they give their experience to newcommers. That elders welcome newcommers, not be suspicious, like "hey, are you sure you can be very active? Are you sure you know how to play?"
2) that always new people join game and they stay in game
3) that game is also profitable, not that about 3518 (lets check that number in future) players are happy they have place to beat up each-other hardcore, for free.

Profit comes from quantity. Ok, those sittings are making some money too. and other features. Ads? I dont know the Utopia's cashflow.

New players come and stay when game is simple and/or when they see game doesnt dominate the real life.
Elders are satisfied as long there are enough people to recruit - so .. when some Kingdoms again collapses - like active Monarch and his core company take break, about 15+ members need to find new spot again.. -1 KD again.. another -1.. another -1... and so on.. At the end there are like 150 KD-s, then 140 .. 120 .. 100.. Then we cut Top-charts? Because all Kingdoms are in top?

Also at one point comes problem -- ghettos dont have any ghettos to fight with -- ghettos collapse, cause all other KD-s are full.
Comes also Monarchy problem -- some people want to be rulers themselves. May come intra-argues or just some get pissed off, cause tired of slow ordering or too rough orderings and so on.

In Cosmic Supremacy, for example - there are noob-galaxies for newbies. They just cant join elder's game, before they have rank 1.
That is hard game, and there is same problem - few newcommers stay. Game needs a lot of time, if you want to rule the galaxy.
If game takes too much time from real life, the playerbase dont grow like its needed.
When elders are main players and few newbies - the newbies get beat up and they find game too hard or unbalanced and they just quit.

People have e g o -s .
This kind of games are mental. Here are many good brains all over world. But simply thsoe brains cant give their maximum cause of real lives.

Maybe 6h turn is too long in first view.. But if you start to think bit wider, and think about newbies -- and that everybody are busy and this is like "geek game" - 6 hours ticks are OK. for background game. I tell you again.. they join the slow game.. and if they get more interested about this, get their ABC... they themselves sneak to active warring game - with their basics. Just to get more excitement. If they get beat up, PK-ed there, they are not gone from game, they still have their slow world, which has improved in the meanwhile and there is interesting too.. then they learn more game again.. and when they have more free time again.. they try again this harder warring game..

The slower game has different goals - there is not priority to war as much as possible, there just build and grow - sometimes attack and so on. Hopefully in slower game 100+ times more players. I predict that bigger number, because its slower game and more "inactives" (if to compare with regular 1h tick-game). Active people dont sit there so much and take it more easy, dont PK people out that fast and so on - cause PK-ing would take so much time. I edit my first post -- I think time-friendly game still should have 25 provinces ( i at first thought, that maybe 15-20).. because sometimes KD needs more power intra.. never know when half kingdom goes inactive..

[null]

I remember my times. Some my KD-s ... when i let my kingdom down, i vanished from my kingdom - to move on to other or just took break from a game for a while..

With me always portion of players left the Kingdom, sometimes whole KD basically collapsed - because that "nuts" is gone and its not like it was before.
Also in old times, sometimes KD had oppositions - that some just backstabbed, to get the Monarchy.
For example: if i knew how is right to play (i learn from wars, aaaaa,, yesyes, like that need to play) - then
1) mandatory and tyranny is too harsh for ghetto.
2) if my motherlanguage is not English, some are hard to follow my vision or
3) opposition use the bad English as weapon against their hard.trying monarch -- comes intra conflicts - tbh i hae felt many times bad in utopia, some are lingua-nazis. They are that only because they want the throne themselves. I have done the work, got the first warwins, and then they want to take over KD, after i have pushed the activity up and so on.

These giving ups just ended, that more than one player left the kingdom, and hello ghetto, again !
and after some time... good bye ghetto.. -1 Kingdom.

Those collapses and tyrannys are always because ghettos want to improve and be like top KD-s. Pressure with time, if you need to be accurate in 1 hour and cant make it, you let KD down - theoretically. You know, perfect game is when you manage all 25 to be online at same hour. It is top play. Ghettos cant do that, their players have different lives. And when they find their KD cant get nowhere, that KD is stuck in vicious circle and then those bacstabbing takeovers and when active people want to rest from game (they quit) - people follow the quitters. And thats how community slowly is shrinking .. Not enough ghettos for other ghettos, to cheer up and stay motivated.
Who are late or cant be active that much - earn PK or whine or bad attitudes. Many of those inactives, i believe, still wanted to play this game, but they just cant be online , they cant ..

[Kido]

I can definitely agree on the kingdom leadership being hard. My Kd follows the incredibly old way of dividing leadership up between 4 roles - Mon, Stew, TM leader, War leader. Makes it easier to keep track of players, and its more helpful for the new players we get, as there's a bigger knowledge base they can always contact.

Might be cool to see something like a Moba's ELO matchmaking system being implemented. Like i wouldn't want to divide the community because its small, and i think it adds to the game that there's lots of players/kingdoms. So i'm not saying a matchmaking system at all, but a persistent scaling thing might be interesting. Like this age they introduced good benefits for warring your way up, but i wonder if you could have a way of ranking KDs throughout the ages in a Diamond, platinum, gold, silver bronze way, depending on how the kingdom ranked last age, then warring/waving a diamond kingdom gives more rewards than warring/waving a bronze.

I think your idea on longer tick is pretty interesting, and i agree that it would help them learn to think about the game more. But casual players are really after small, sporadic time commitments, or large spurts of huge activity then nothing for weeks - because thats kinda the way games in general are atm. Utopia almost requires a well defined schedule with 2+ logins where they can spend 15 mins to an hour playing around with stuff. For casuals, i'd say having a server that can complete an age inside of 2.5-3 hours might be better. Less time for thinking, but a whole bunch of experience just learning the mechanics. The rules would probably be a little different, like: higher starting resources, so they can specialize in roles much much faster; smaller kingdoms, say 5 provinces, the number of players in a moba and so you can have at least one prov for each role - thief, mage, and 3 types of attackers; have multiple matches occurring simultaneously, and limiting kingdom to 4 per match. The idea being that the age is just the length of a movie or double that of an RTS game's battle. There's no long term commitment, but you learn the basic mechanics, and its an intense burst of the classic game. But then, this makes it difficult to start games at appropriate times for all timezones, so i don't know. Just throwing it out there to further the conversation.

[null]

3518 (my last post) -> 3520 (temporary growth) -> 3517 -> 3515 (now)

players count, when i remembered to check.. in couple of days. at one moment it grew by 2.. then its again droping. I try to remember to check it more. And lets see what is that number after week. Ofcourse now is summer and people dont sit so much in computer + its middle of age.. but if i'd own the game, i'd keep eye on that number "24/7" if there are stagnant times.

-3 in 1 day is 0,1%
In theory in 10 days -30 players? = 1% ? I doubt that, maybe -10 or -5 ... But if it does drop still about 10, I'd be worried. Because then its like 1 player per day.

To quit is always easy. Its just "let it go", quitting is so relaxing. I remember my pauses and quits..

To come back --- that needs something special.. Like friend is asking to join (i joined now because my friend asked again to join, like third or fourth time, told me for honey its veryvery good KD, i should try thatkind of game too,,, so i thought ah what the hell, lets play one age)
or really feel there are too much free time or some people might have jobs in other country or office jobs.

Some leave game to join back after little time, intentionally - to get to new KD somewhere - its little lottery and excitement - they skip invites and recruits, they want it to be random. Some are spies, trolls, cows.

In old times i played that lottery, I wished always to get spot in empty KD-s, the less players, the better - to build it all up from zero - that if I am first in KD, im biggest and i make the rules.. "my utopia, my wonder-kingdom" ... wanted to try like that. But if i joined KD, where there were like 7 players already - the monarchy was hard to get - since half of KD was inactive already. So randoming failed and I just did "let it go" and took time out longer from game..

about 7 years ago, when i did quit last time -- my reason, why i didnt come to game back, was - i got married (im now divorced, lol) - i just got more mature, i got off from other forums, from raves/parties and so, i started to think more about real life and about my future. one year goes, second year goes, and finally i didnt get any feelings about game, cause i remembered, it takes a lot of time.

after i ended this post, i made refresh.

New number: 3514. So the drop is 4 in one day.

and after 10 minutes its 3513 ....

[Bo To]

after i ended this post, i made refresh.

New number: 3514. So the drop is 4 in one day.

and after 10 minutes its 3513 ....

I'm not absolutely sure this is correct way to count players because when a province die(that sill happens occasionally) it's removed from the list...

[Savage]

Null, great ideas and kudos to you for bringing up a huge problem for this game! Something has to be done/changed for how we bring in new players. This really is a great game but it is not fun for new players who have so much to learn and as they are learning get beat down over and over. If its not fun while they learn, why continue to play? When top KDs continue to rape/pillage the noob provs of all their resources, how are they to grow and not get discouraged?
I believe the answer is two servers.
When a player signs up, they should have 2 choices, Starter server or WoL. Each should have a short description outlining what each server is.

Obviously, WoL is the main server where you better understand the game (as it is today).

The Starter Server can have so many possibilities. I envision it like this.

A new player starts a new prov. develop basics of what to do. This is where those "How To" videos by pro players would come into play. You start it out so simple, like how Clash of Clans does!
Before they really are able to create their own prov, they have to go through these basic tutorials. What is your prov, what is a KD, Whats are the races/personalities, what is T/M, what is attacker, what is warring, chaining etc. Each tutorial is interactive where they click/read/learn as they go and link refer to the guide or wiki. Once they acknowledge all the tutorials, then they get to create their prov!
They give their game name, Race and Personality. They then go into a week long Protection. During this time, they grow their prov and have growth tutorial from either player tutorials or developer tutorials. These get "unlocked" as they advance. Once a player has completed all the objectives (no time table, just at their own pace) then they get a "join a KD" Link or box is activated. They would click that, then......

they would be placed into a BOT KD. The BOT KD would have no more than 12 players. All players are BOTs until an actual player takes a BOTs place. here they can experience what its like to be in a KD. BOTs will have predetermined skills, basic reply commands for interaction. There will be a BOT Monarch who will further instruct new players. Eventually new players would elect an actual player monarch. The elected monarch could have basic ability to change some of the BOT provs Race/Personality etc. In this BOT KD, they would eventually goto wars. Wars would only last two days and would be based on Acres/NW etc to declare the winner. The BOTs would be set up for Army in/Army out to show new players how it should be done. Once a player has 3 wars under them, they are merged with other players who have completed the inactive KD and get placed into a Active KD.

ACTIVE KD
this would be on a separate server. This Server will mirror WOL as far as Age restart times. Here KDs functions as normal WoL KDs do now, with a few exceptions. The game must be slower paced. Perhaps tick every other hour and KDs can only WAR once every 4 weeks? Or something like that. The idea of active KDs is more slowly allow players to get the feel of the game, its mechanics and KD to KD interactions. Make resource losses, land losses minimal in these wars. Allow faster recovery etc.

The Monarch in each of these active KDs will have a Link (only avail to them) that once activated, that KD will migrate to the WoL server once the Age resets. They would stay together as a KD and join the WoL players to test there skills!


Overall, the game needs a way to make it fun for new players, make it easier to learn as they play. as Null has said, this is an awesome game. It could have millions of players. Ask yourself, why doesn't it?
Because, its NOT fun for new players, its a complex game that takes a long time to understand. New players get frustrated because the get attacked continually and dont know how to grow. Monarchs get burnt out from the constant teaching/showing new players. The solution is to find a way to slow the game way down so new players learn and grasp the game at a much slower pace and give them rewards with achievements as they get the experience and learn.