CR v BB v Pandas v ???

[Maximo]

Game is so scary. I dont know how i manage to play it for so long.

So BB is entirely in its right to hit bananas until they close or negotiate relations?

[Meep]

It has been a long while since I rules lawyered and I was not active yesterday at all so....

I only see two hits comming in from Mangos. Not even unfriendly. Dragons were exchanged. Ops are not reported in the news.

Thus the only objective facts seen are

Two hits, no relations and two dragons.

Is that a hostile? Don't you have to give relations for it to be a hostile? To me, if Mangos wants to claim some sort of "hostile" protection... one would think that someone has to have hostile status right? Or at least unfriendly?

Note, I am not really taking sides here. I am just trying to understand what passes for "hostile" these days. Clearly the game mechancis definiion is "enough hits to get the meter to 'hostile'"

I think hostile in the spirit of top play clearly means 'two KDs are fighting'

I think us both posturing and robbing and sending dragons while fort ticks out is clearly an active engagement.

Dragons sent is clearly a hostile action, this has been lawyered before extensively.

If I've spent troops killing a dragon, I'm in a fight.

The thing that pisses me off the most is that we tried to be reasonable with barco/div and not be dicks, because we want to have better relations with people.

I want there to be a robust competitive top, where we all have fair (note: fair doesn't necessarily mean 50/50, just means people not being complete dicks to each other) fights and fun ages.

[Meep]

So BB is entirely in its right to hit bananas until they close or negotiate relations?

You let people deal with dealbreakers and figure out the consequences later.

It's what we should have done two ages ago when Coss got dealbroken.

We did very dumb things and didn't do that though.

But we did a lot of dumb things that age.

I'm trying to get us to do less dumb things, and get along better with everyone.

[Sheister]

@sheister - maybe the problem is your strategy? It sounds to me like you're not adapting to the changes and complaining about the fact that old strategies don't work any more.

I don't play so I don't really have the hands on experience with the changes, but it sounds to me like you're trying to shove a square peg into a round peg hole and you're blaming the peg board for your failures.

Palem there is a certain adaptation that is true. Here is what I mean.

Kingdom A goes to war. Gains 5K acres fairly evenly distributed so all provinces are 2-3K acres at the end.

Kingdom B goes to war against idiots gaining 5K acres and ends up with 5 provinces at 4.5K acres and everyone else at 1K to 2K acres.


Kingdom A now can't random for acres, Kingdom A now can't pool acres to make 5 provinces to match the 4.5K acre provinces. All provinces have even pool so you are forced to make every linearly smaller provinces in an effort to "keep up"

Kingdom B can continue to explore in the linead fashion maintaining its acre advantage on the top over Kingdom A. Moreover, Kingdom B can also random because of superior target selection to magnify the acres disparity and in fact gain more acres than Kingdom A can.

This While A and B would, in a simplistic world be on even footing, in fact at notice drop some weeks later, B is at a massive advantage and will farm A and there is not one damned thing A can do to reposition itself or otherwise try to work to make the impending conflict "even".

[MyNameIsMatija]

I think hostile in the spirit of top play clearly means 'two KDs are fighting'

I think us both posturing and robbing and sending dragons while fort ticks out is clearly an active engagement.

Dragons sent is clearly a hostile action, this has been lawyered before extensively.

If I've spent troops killing a dragon, I'm in a fight.

The thing that pisses me off the most is that we tried to be reasonable with barco/div and not be dicks, because we want to have better relations with people.

I want there to be a robust competitive top, where we all have fair (note: fair doesn't necessarily mean 50/50, just means people not being complete dicks to each other) fights and fun ages.

You sure you play in the same KD as Octobrev?

[Meep]

You sure you play in the same KD as Octobrev?

Ask dubai, mango, and octobrev how ****ing livid I was when I was awoken to that bull****.

[Elit]

So BB is entirely in its right to hit bananas until they close or negotiate relations?

Yes BB have full legit right to keep hit/op banana if they want or they can use all mess for set deal what favor them.

[Sheister]

I think hostile in the spirit of top play clearly means 'two KDs are fighting'

Which is not unreasonable, but if some random nubness comes and does a SN and does not know who we are, how does that work?

I think us both posturing and robbing and sending dragons while fort ticks out is clearly an active engagement.

Yes, but there are no indicia to third parties

Dragons sent is clearly a hostile action, this has been lawyered before extensively.

But game mechanics do not award meter points for this and if they did, you would have send a dragon and done only ONE hit. Is that really hostile? Don't you have to give relations?

If I've spent troops killing a dragon, I'm in a fight.

But you didn't at the time they noticed.

The thing that pisses me off the most is that we tried to be reasonable with barco/div and not be dicks, because we want to have better relations with people.

I want there to be a robust competitive top, where we all have fair (note: fair doesn't necessarily mean 50/50, just means people not being complete dicks to each other) fights and fun ages.

And in this I completely agree.

[Meep]

Which is not unreasonable, but if some random nubness comes and does a SN and does not know who we are, how does that work?

Yes, but there are no indicia to third parties

But game mechanics do not award meter points for this and if they did, you would have send a dragon and done only ONE hit. Is that really hostile? Don't you have to give relations?

But you didn't at the time they noticed.

And in this I completely agree.

We killed your dragon the tick it was sent. The dragon sends from both KDs, and the dragon slay, were in our news.

Also, this is a top fight. Everyone knows when top fights are happening. That excuse works in the ghetto, it doesn't work in organized play.

At least, it's not working against me.

Barco KNEW we were fighting you because we specifically told them that instead of vulturing them, we were going to fight you

They KNEW we were hostile beforehand.

They decided to notice into that hostile that they knew was happening, then refused to retract it, out of supposed fear of div dodging them to engage us.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Sheister this age war stance doesn't necessarily mean more than two hits. This is as close as to a hostile as it gets by the sound of things.

[Sheister]

We killed your dragon the tick it was sent.

Oh...

And this is a top fight.

Yes but rules need to be objective.

All 4 remaining crown contenders knew it was happening.

Yes but rules need to be objective.

Barco KNEW we were fighting you because we specifically told them that instead of vulturing them, we were going to fight you

They KNEW we were hostile beforehand.

They decided to notice into that hostile that they knew was happening, then refused to retract it, out of supposed fear of div dodging them to engage us.

Yeah, this part is shady as hell, but to me, had you given relations your case is cleaner. You had ever advantage under the sun and if you wanted protections, you gives relations (imho).

[Sheister]

Sheister this age war stance doesn't necessarily mean more than two hits. This is as close as to a hostile as it gets by the sound of things.

So, if I am doing random grabs and I do a SN and I see two hits into a kingdom, that means hostile and I shouldn't random hit the target?

Or are you and Meep saying there are different rules here because this is a "top" war and different rules/codes apply in the top than for the rest of the server?

(Go ahead and say it, I know your answer anyway)

[MyNameIsMatija]

Not sure.
If you see dragons sent and slain you can be fairly sure what's up.
Anyway what does it matter. Top play is like a little village everyone knows who took their last poop when and where. Well I don't keep track but I'm not really in the top atm or care enough to care.

[Sheister]

Not sure.
If you see dragons sent and slain you can be fairly sure what's up.
Anyway what does it matter. Top play is like a little village everyone knows who took their last poop when and where. Well I don't keep track but I'm not really in the top atm or care enough to care.

Yes that is true, but if Mangos wants to claim some right based on a deal (privity of contract) that it wishes to interpret the terms of in light of general moral codes or customs, then Mangos should first establish what the code or custom is.

Outside of four kingdoms in the "top" what is a hostile? There is one objective measure called the meter. The meter did not go to hostile. If they want that level of custom or respect, it seems to me that it is their duty to secure it by giving relations unless they have negotiated different terms or definitions for a hostile.

Just sayin...

And yes, if I were in magos shoes, I would be just as annoyed/pissed about this as they are.

[StratOcastle]

I'll note, we tried to deliver notice of notice to divinity

Despite my arguments to the contrary, we were told this was unacceptable, and we retracted said notice.

We also were nice enough to not even burn notice with either KD while they prepped out of war for a couple of days, so as not to vulture either of them coming out of their war, choosing to fight an at least decently pumped and turtled BB instead of farming one of the two of them.

I even gave my assurances to both that I wasn't going to notice into their prep/hostile for/with each other, because I'm trying to be fair to people.

I'm sick of everyone's bull****.

Nobody wants to abide by their deals, nobody wants to fight by the terms of their deals.

Had to stop here because this is where the soap opera reaches lift off and I'm on a short break. Top diplo has legs like Fox News: I don't agree with it but I still watch.

Slow it down to 2 hour cigar cadence. This thing is almost out of control.