Divinity VS CR

[Persain]

I would have liked a war on same size, don't need smaller BTW, imo we did fine considering size disadvantage. Should have not declared, hit you through Fortified then nearing end of it sent CF stopped hitting. Oh well! It made for an exciting age so far!

given your activity and setup if u'd been even cloe to equally pumped in military its likely that we'd of lost flat out as you out setup'ed us and had much better wpa. Why do u think we engaged u that way, the only other kd sized that could give us land was emeriti...and we cant fight an ally. Couple that with all the other top kds seemingly "Scared" to fight a spartan (look at how it went for cr lol) and we took the best oprotunity we had. I'd still argue only reason it went fine is that post war we didnt get taxed.....if a b2b had ahppened after having us get waved first it'd been close enough to a 2v1 that we'd of easily lost a second fight. Kd as a whole was pretty dead set on @#$!@ you up (if we had to keep fighting) after it took so much time and effort to beat you in the first place.

Whole thing lead to my talking to meep about cf's and him geting first dibs if u're willing to move on. Just sad a bit that hes soo upset that he read that as "well always have first dibs." Reading back he asked about 1 of our cf's but not any others im surprised that conversation lead him to thinking he'd aways have first dibs.

You should not talk about logs! Shhhh! The prior leader of CR, Now the game owner, " Tsk Tsk' Zauper, leaked leadership channel logs of Emeriti which led to the then GB on them by flogger!

my logs are just talk. My kd always holds the position that "talk=/=action" and basically whatever we say in logs we expect is geting leaked. Someone wants to judge us on our thoughts because they cant understand that dreaming up a situation, asking about something, or even suggestion something is a option does NOT mean we'd do something then they are pretty stupid to begin with....and not worth dealing with :P

[Palem]

Chill with the insults

[MyNameIsMatija]

The things you people argue about...

[Meep]

meep might nota been aware, but with as good and as @#$@ as a few of the leaders are, my kd was betting money that there was a conversation somewhere in their irc/whatapp/pms that said. "#$@!# we wont gain a ton off of bb and even if we manage a win its going to take a long time and gut our wpa. best move is to offer a cf, and claim dealbreak gb, then stall later and use land to win crown".

We'll never be able to prove it, but if logs like that dont exist their leaders are TERRIBLE for not even thinking it up(my kd would dream up stuff like that then just not act on it)....its just to bad they are dishonest enough to actually play it out thatway.

Yeah no. Did you actually see the numbers? They were getting destroyed.

They had nowhere near the LL ability of Sleepy and all of their rogues were going to be getting chained unlike sleepy, so we had no fear of getting a significant number of provs AW'd.

We had the time and gold to bleed down their gc and wages, since unlike against sleepy, we had no reason to fear them bouncing us, because they didn't have the offense to use.

[Persain]

Yeah no. Did you actually see the numbers? They were getting destroyed.

They had nowhere near the LL ability of Sleepy and all of their rogues were getting chained unlike sleepy.

We had the time and gold to bleed down their gc and wages, since unlike against sleepy, we had no reason to fear them bouncing us, because they didn't have the offense to use.

you say that, and u keep repeating it. but ultimately if u were goign to farm them that hard you could of farmed them THEN dealt with pandas dealbreaking you and won the age. i repeat if your leadership said !@#$ the age we got dealbroken then u shouldn't of cared when we said your to big relative to us, let us support u from geting anyone pissy by having u drop a little land first.

I also went through ALL our logs w/you. And while my memory of them seems differnt from yours reading the actual words used its pretty clear you guys wouldnt cf us untill my attempts to cf everyone not in war lead to sleepy telling us both they were going to notice u before we left eowcf. you want to go and say "you said 100% we'd always have first dibs, and we'd 'd cf'ed everyone else" show it. maybe also answer why when i said i spefically had a cf with sleepy you had me give you the terms, but u didnt ask for terms with any other kd? maybe because the context of our talk was "persain needs a short term cf to make sure he doesnt get waved, then have to b2b spartans from a smaller size."

Hell it was what 3 weeks or a month after u cf'ed us before we ended up fighting barco. If you think i was that clearly lieing to you wouldnt that be even more of a reason to have say claimed the lie was a dealbreak and waved us----same vein as the pandas notice being a dealbreak so u waved them? what magically made theirs worse...the fact you couldnt gain off us the same way u did off them?

[Spice]

I dislike CR a lot, but I honostly do not know why CR is getting GBed.

[Meep]

This was their halfling defenses, at peak defense before wage drop/BE/Losses:

Kill the one above me 1,563.2k|Miep 1,485.3k|Duivis 1,439.5k|When she was just a Girl 1,331.2k|KaTe GaZoNKeRS 936.8k|

--

We clean broke the two highest def ones, unbreakably, killing almost 10,000 elites on each.

Their halflings were also broke and already having to drop wages, so their defense was falling per tick faster than our own offense from BE drop, since we pulled off some clever tricks to retain BE/offense/balance BE drop against horsies incoming and would remain

So what happens after we're done eating those 15k acres for breakfast?

--

We move on to lunch...

This was their elf defenses, at peak defenses:

erf example 958.5k|Same Hero New Boots 785.1k|Saber 748.0k|The Butcher 638.0k|

We're hitting 1.5m def unbreakably, guess what we're doing to 650k-950k def?

Oh that's right, chaining them without getting broken back.

--

Here was their top 5 total offenses at drop:

The President 1,377.1k|Shibari 1,343.7k|Bout Tree Fiddy 1,180.1k|ONE-ABOVE-ALL 955.7k|Bronzebeard 942.7k|

We have more offense than that right now today after 2 weeks of killing people.

We had provinces with literally double that at notice drop.

--

I took this prep seriously, including some extreme off the wall minmaxing in the final 14 hours of prep to get some absurd numbers on the board, and to make sure we were going to be able to beat them soundly.

If you haven't seen the actual full numbers from both sides, then you don't know **** about how that war was going to go.

I actually 100% honestly expected a better prep from them, and thought it was odd that Sheister was complaining about the war before draft even started.

By the end of prep when the numbers started becoming more clear I was ready to farm.

[Persain]

This was ......We have more offense than that right now today after 2 weeks of killing people.

So i repeat
1.farm bb, then tell everyone pandas db broke us if u can outwhore us you got the age won, otherwise you are going to pk/razekill them for the dealbreak post war. from 200k+ acres that'd of been easy even with only an eowcf.
2. Farm BB, then Farm pandas again if your so huge u could just ignored the db (or of asked others to reinstate notice) and then farmed them ftw.
3.you take the stance, we dont care about winning, and we just want to police we can understand u think we're to big relative to you and others are pissy at us..if you promise to be at our side we'll drop acres so theres zero chance at a backstab.
^^^^any of those 3 options play out pretty well for you kd. you chose

4. We have some plan....but its "secret special"
--from the outside looking in u chose to police, then line up someone to remove barco from a threat so u could prep and not have policing hurt you. It wasnt untill bb said, divinity we'd rather not war given your size and (edit...others, not bb said) oooh look what cr is doing that **** blew up in your face.



err edit...
3.5 woulda been...we dont wanna drop, but we'll fight u 1v1 lose some then cf as a "honorable" way to not have to intra raze.

[Meep]

So i repeat
1.farm bb, then tell everyone pandas db broke us if u can outwhore us you got the age won, otherwise you are going to pk/razekill them for the dealbreak post war. from 200k+ acres that'd of been easy even with only an eowcf.
2. Farm BB, then Farm pandas again if your so huge u could just ignored the db (or of asked others to reinstate notice) and then framed them ftw.
3.you take the stance, we dont care about winning, and we just want to police we can understand u think we're to big relative to you and others are pissy at us..if you promise to be at our side we'll drop acres so theres zero chance at a backstab.
^^^^any of those 3 options play out pretty well for you kd. you chose

4. We have some plan....but its "secret special"
--from the outside looking in u chose to police, then line up someone to remove barco from a threat so u could prep and not have policing hurt you. It wasnt untill bb said, divinity we'd rather not war given your size and oooh look what cr is doing that **** blew up in your face.

Oh, so the BB that was going to be a tough fight for us wouldn't even consider warring you from the same relative size disadvantage?

If BB decided they didn't want to war you, your easy way to make more space to stop worrying about us was just to say 'okay so give us land'.

Why does BB need land any more than we do if they don't want to fight you for the crown? Couldn't they just give you the 20k they took from Matija, and then you're well ahead of us with plenty of space to sit back and do anything if we try something shady?

We're actively engaged with someone, land is econ is additional means to keep on razing Barco faster and faster.

Ask yourself why BB wanted you guys to start **** while they sit back and threaten to GB us and lap you.

[Sheister]

I actually 100% honestly expected a better prep from them, and thought it was odd that Sheister was complaining about the war before draft even started.

Because if both kingdoms had perfect prep Meep (and I won't bother digging up intel because I don't remember and don't care) I was annoyed by the raw advantage you were certain to have had and the fact that the mechanics this age made it impossible for us to compensate for the raw numbers you were likely going to put up.

The TM theory of how BB might have won is not entirely implausible, but I would not call it a "LOL! We would win a long war!" and I would not even think that a long war was likely a good scenario. To me, a long war involved you all being far up on acres and when/if we turned it, you WD up acres and with even larger land disparity with a B2B incomming. So yeah, I complained. I think I was complaining about the mechanics though, not the war per se. I have been complaining about the mechanics all age.

The reality of our situation is, if emeriti had not punked out and warred us, CR and BB would have been more evenly matched. But emeriti did punk out, that screwed us because you can be screwed that way under our lovely new mechanics (with no way to make up the lost acres) and the Devs completely ****ed up the game this age (imho).

Personally, I don't know why anyone cares about this age anymore. I am just waiting for age changes to see if I even bother to log in again. When the game gets to the point that there are no ways to compensate or use strategy to even out mid-age and end of age wars, the game is dead (imho).

[Meep]

Because if both kingdoms had perfect prep Meep (and I won't bother digging up intel because I don't remember and don't care) I was annoyed by the raw advantage you were certain to have had and the fact that the mechanics this age made it impossible for us to compensate for the raw numbers you were likely going to put up.

The TM theory of how BB might have won is not entirely implausible, but I would not call it a "LOL! We would win a long war!" and I would not even think that a long war was likely a good scenario. To me, a long war involved you all being far up on acres and when/if we turned it, you WD up acres and with even larger land disparity with a B2B incomming. So yeah, I complained. I think I was complaining about the mechanics though, not the war per se. I have been complaining about the mechanics all age.

The reality of our situation is, if emeriti had not punked out and warred us, CR and BB would have been more evenly matched. But emeriti did punk out, that screwed us because you can be screwed that way under our lovely new mechanics (with no way to make up the lost acres) and the Devs completely ****ed up the game this age (imho).

Personally, I don't know why anyone cares about this age anymore. I am just waiting for age changes to see if I even bother to log in again. When the game gets to the point that there are no ways to compensate or use strategy to even out mid-age and end of age wars, the game is dead (imho).

I really don't mean to be a jackass and brag too much about a fight that didn't even pan out, but you guys winning on TMs was entirely implausible, because unlike in our WSK and Sleepy wars, your TMs were completely breakable from the start of the fight, and unlike them you didn't have offense to threaten any of our top 12 dwarves, or our tms.

We had every bit of ability to chain all 9 of your halflings/elves without even taking a 2nd look at your dwarves.

--

And yeah people dodging fights and only trying to war if they can vulture is pretty ****ty.

We tried to not do that this age, I could've vultured Barco or Div, hence we decided to notice you instead of noticing and farming one of them coming OOW.

[Sheister]

I really don't mean to be a jackass and brag too much about a fight that didn't even pan out, but you guys winning on TMs was entirely implausible, because unlike in our WSK and Sleepy wars, your TMs were completely breakable from the start of the fight, and unlike them you didn't have offense to threaten any of our top 12 dwarves, or our tms.

We had every bit of ability to chain all 9 of your halflings/elves without even taking a 2nd look at your dwarves.

I am not arguing with you. I am thinking I see a path it could have worked. A likely path? Not particularly from my view but I could see it. Again, if that path emerged, I saw you up huge acres on your top provinces, WD up acres, then B2B with even greater top advantage and a nearly certain result in the second war. In short, I did not see us winning in the mid or long-term warring you.

That said, I would have rather warred and lost and played the rest of the age in ghetto land, than been yawing through the crap that this age is.

*edit* I just bothered to look at the "rankings". If somehow we "crown" this age, you won't hear me talking big or feeling good about it. FWIW.

[Meep]

I am not arguing with you. I am thinking I see a path it could have worked. A likely path? Not particularly from my view but I could see it. Again, if that path emerged, I saw you up huge acres on your top provinces, WD up acres, then B2B with even greater top advantage and a nearly certain result in the second war. In short, I did not see us winning in the mid or long-term warring you.

That said, I would have rather warred and lost and played the rest of the age in ghetto land, than been yawing through the crap that this age is.

What was up with the halfer/elf prep anyway?

I had simmed them out to better numbers and was sweating over whether or not I was going to have squeezed enough military in up until just a few ticks before notice drop.

People kept telling me to relax and that you guys seemed to have poor activity and that I needed to stop stressing, but I was well aware we're fighting a good KD and that we don't have any room to slip up and underperform in war like we've done and screwed ourselves in ages past (I.E. Coss kicking our ass and us barely winning a few ages ago in spite of our huge advantages going in)

[Meep]

*edit* I just bothered to look at the "rankings". If somehow we "crown" this age, you won't hear me talking big or feeling good about it. FWIW.

Crowning is silly, who cares about crowns.

I'm here for the rare but possible wars at big sizes, where you actually get to do silly things and push the limits of game mechanics compared to what you can ever do in the ghetto.

If it means ending up #1 and crowning so be it.

But I'm never afraid to throw away an age when some douchecanoes like Barco decide they want to dealbreak me.

[Persain]

Oh, so the BB that was going to be a tough fight for us wouldn't even consider warring you from the same relative size disadvantage?

If BB decided they didn't want to war you, your easy way to make more space to stop worrying about us was just to say 'okay so give us land'.

Why does BB need land any more than we do if they don't want to fight you for the crown? Couldn't they just give you the 20k they took from Matija, and then you're well ahead of us with plenty of space to sit back and do anything if we try something shady?

We're actively engaged with someone, land is econ is additional means to keep on razing Barco faster and faster.

Ask yourself why BB wanted you guys to start **** while they sit back and threaten to GB us and lap you.

BB saying they'd rather not war didnt mean we wouldnt force war or tax them, it mean they didnt want to war and we watched our options.. You know in the same way they didnt want to war you guys and cf'ed when you asked for it why would they want to war us anymore than they'd wanna war you. Thing is you guys kept doing **** that made u look worse and worse. So much so that us engaging bb when u pulled in someone to 2v1 barco would likely guaranteed any **** u pulled was successful. Hell them "gifting" us acres woulda just mean u have 1 "big" kd to fight instead of say 2 stronger ones. The other option was to go hrm....cr pulling **** again, lets see if they're willing to honor a valid 1v1, or if they're willing to have us back them up a tad by falling outa range so maybe we can engage bb safely. Nope, wave spartans. u said u guys would act irrationally, well 9 kds agree.

You keep saying "why bb wanted you guys to start ****".....they didn't. Pretty sure u can ask anyone in bb they'll likely agree that they never said "hey, hey divinity how about u notice cr....or maybe u can just wave them and we'll follow and claim its a gb." Would it have made you magically happier if i we'd of told all the 9 kds hitting you, lets all agree to a gb, but bb needs to hit 4-5 times before anyone else?