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Thread: Affairs of the State - Episode 3 - Discussion Topics

  1. #1
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    Affairs of the State - Episode 3 - Discussion Topics

    Episode 3 is coming! Please use this thread to post discussion topics or questions you would like to hear us answer/talk about!

    Episode 3 details can be found here
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  2. #2
    Post Demon
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    I'd really like an update on the genesis server project and we might also want an update or end date on the current age depending on when the broadcast will be.

    Other than that what mostly comes to mind is having you David wear medieval replica armour at the broadcast and have Bishop pose with a spoon over his left ear so we can see that he is real, that microphone with bad sound really made me wonder.

    I'll probably have a few more things on the wishlist later on.

  3. #3
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    I Really REALLY want to know how you guys are going to fix mechanics so that people can use their pool strategically so that they can make top wars competitive again. Individual pools have made it impossible to strategically grow and to manage your province distribution. Unless it gets fixed, this game becomes completely linear and it is pointless to even try to be competitive.
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  4. #4
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    Would love to know end date on current age and how spell and thief success will be fixed. Went through a war with 5 raw TPA, 15% WT and barrier...still had almost non stop 90% success rate nightstrike from provinces 30% my size.

  5. #5
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    Why should core game mechanics develop around how 5% of the player base plays? Besides, the top has been more entertaining than I ever remember it being, so not sure what's linear about it.

  6. #6
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    Swagger. Picture two kingdoms (A and B). Both war from 30K acres against separate opponants. A wars a ghetto that does some top control and ends up with essentially flat provinces (assume arguendo, 25 individual 1500 acre provinces at the end of the war). B wars a ghetto that knows nothing and ends up at 3K, 2.8K, 2.6K, 2.5K, 2K, 2K, 12 provinces at 1.5K, 1300, 900, 800, 700, 600, 400. Both kingdoms have equal pool at 500 acres per province at EoWCF start and both will have CF drop at the same time in the normal schedule. Both kingdoms are 37500 acres.

    There is no way that kingdom A can defeat kingdom B. It simply will not happen. With explore costs being related to size and with pool sharing, it is possible that A can make a few provinces capable of interacting with and damaging B's top. Absent that, A gets farmed.

    You don't think that is a problem?
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  7. #7
    Enthusiast Zombies are people too's Avatar
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    Peaches or Apricots? Elvis or The Beatles? Snowboarding or Surfing? Don't leave us guessing!

    -DM <3

  8. #8
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    This is probably the wrong thread to get into it, but those two kingdoms don't exist in a vacuum. If there were only two kingdoms in the game you would have a point, and even then not really. If those two kingdoms knew they were going to war and pool was still kd based, what's stopping kingdom B from exploring their bigs even more? The situation isn't much different, although there is less wiggle room in the current state.

  9. #9
    I like to post Sheister's Avatar
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    Swagger, B could do that, but the costs are higher so A could have a gold/training advantage. The kingdoms do tend to end up in vaccuums because after three to four weeks there are no targets. War kingdoms refuse to war unless there are terms that they like. In short, it is too easy to shut an entire kingdom out of gaining land efficiently in the game.
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  10. #10
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    So what is your solution? Kd based pool just caused growth kds to stack acres in a few while leaving the core to feast on the warring tier and grow with randoms. Id argue that was 10x more problematic than the first world problem the current state creates. I feel you might be missing the forest for the trees here.

  11. #11
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    as long as i get to hear bishops voice better and theres a general discussion of the "these are the suggestions we're looking for when it comes to next age tweaks" i'll be a happy man :D

  12. #12
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    If we're keeping the personal explore pool, how about adding a modifier to poor growth per tick, based on median. Something like... around median you get 3a/tick, if you're bottom you get 4-5? and if you're extremely over median you get 2.

    Or just give a 1a bonus per tick to provinces under half median or something.
    Last edited by Avenger; 27-07-2017 at 20:02.
    Discord: Hex | IRC: Hextor / Avenger

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    Swagger. Picture two kingdoms (A and B). Both war from 30K acres against separate opponants. A wars a ghetto that does some top control and ends up with essentially flat provinces (assume arguendo, 25 individual 1500 acre provinces at the end of the war). B wars a ghetto that knows nothing and ends up at 3K, 2.8K, 2.6K, 2.5K, 2K, 2K, 12 provinces at 1.5K, 1300, 900, 800, 700, 600, 400. Both kingdoms have equal pool at 500 acres per province at EoWCF start and both will have CF drop at the same time in the normal schedule. Both kingdoms are 37500 acres.

    There is no way that kingdom A can defeat kingdom B. It simply will not happen. With explore costs being related to size and with pool sharing, it is possible that A can make a few provinces capable of interacting with and damaging B's top. Absent that, A gets farmed.

    You don't think that is a problem?
    All you've done is expressed that having an explore pool, by itself, is a problem. In the situation you're outlining, kingdom B has generated approx. 5.9k additional pool acres under the old system (assuming time to re-grow to 1500 and 1500 is the growth cap) You're also assuming that both kingdoms have approx. 12.5k pool. In a situation where two kingdoms are fighting, starting from all provinces being the same size, and one of them has 12.5k pool and the other has 18.4k pool, which do you think will win? If both kingdoms exit at the same time, and fight immediately, then kingdom B is likely to both always have the size advantage and always have the pump/prep advantage.

    The problem is actually larger in the old system than the new system -- in the old system, those 5.9k acres wind up being concentrated onto one or two provinces, who can now explore more pool because t/ms got free acres in war. In the new system, those acres will always remain that distributed, such that the top province will always be only ~1.5k acres ahead of the 'average' capped growth province. Sure, in an immediate conflict that might represent a problem (though in an immediate conflict, those provinces also will not have re-grown on the bottom and the top won't have had time to pump WPA), but over the long term ~1.5k acres is much easier to overcome than ~3-5k as it represents a smaller % advantage.

    Beyond that, you're actually wrong that it's an autowin. Think about the Divinity v Pandas war a few ages back, where Pandas spent their explore pool broadly across their kingdom while Divinity focused it on their top provinces, who were already significantly bigger -- and lost. Then BB did the same thing, and lost. Changes since then have empowered 'strong core' in fighting cows -- reduction of NW difference penalties on ops, reduction of topfeeding penalty in war, etc.

    I've seen you complain a lot about inability to grow outside of war. It seems to me that your kingdom hasn't even tried. There's also, frankly, nothing more strategic about 'cram as many explore pool acres onto as few provinces as possible' (old system) than 'everyone explores the same amount of acres' (new system).

    I also wouldn't count on changes that focus on helping the top 3-4 kingdoms to the detriment of the rest of the server.
    Last edited by Zauper; 27-07-2017 at 20:57.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    I Really REALLY want to know how you guys are going to fix mechanics so that people can use their pool strategically so that they can make top wars competitive again. Individual pools have made it impossible to strategically grow and to manage your province distribution. Unless it gets fixed, this game becomes completely linear and it is pointless to even try to be competitive.
    Only no point in being competitive if you **** up and lose a vital fight during the age - which is perfectly valid. You ****ed up in the scenario and you can't compete against kingdoms that played better than you.

    Once again, I think BB should just avoid top play entirely. Obviously you aren't suited for top play as a kingdom.

    On Topic:

    What is being done to save Utonet and will be featuring the same nazi moderation as the forums and slack group once ownership is transferred to MUGA?

    Will ghetto monarchs be allowed to decide changes by themselves this age, so we can spend 12 weeks trolling them as they cry, whine, and make claims of impending collective suicide when they still suck all age?

    When will X-logging become legalized?

    Can we x-log on the Genesis server if it ever materializes?

    Why are their no Twitch streams of top kd priv and leadership chans during top wars? Are you working to incentive this so that ghettos can learn and the true pull of Utopia can be seen by the twitch masses?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    as long as i get to hear bishops voice better and theres a general discussion of the "these are the suggestions we're looking for when it comes to next age tweaks" i'll be a happy man :D
    I was also looking forward to this, however based on David's original post he is not listed as an attendee. Regardless though it will be a good episode :) Hopefully get Bishop back for ep 4

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