Affairs of the State - Episode 3 - Discussion Topics

[MyNameIsMatija]

I agree with Pillz.
Also, is there Bart in this episode?

[Sheister]

So what is your solution? Kd based pool just caused growth kds to stack acres in a few while leaving the core to feast on the warring tier and grow with randoms. Id argue that was 10x more problematic than the first world problem the current state creates. I feel you might be missing the forest for the trees here.

In the suggestions section I suggested taxing acres donated between provinces at 500 gc/acre donated. Thus making cows is still very hard early game because provinces can't manage the tax burden, but late age wars are still manageable once everyone has put on NW and there is separation from the pack so that #1 and #2 can fight on more even terms.

[Sheister]

All you've done is expressed that having an explore pool, by itself, is a problem. In the situation you're outlining, kingdom B has generated approx. 5.9k additional pool acres under the old system (assuming time to re-grow to 1500 and 1500 is the growth cap) You're also assuming that both kingdoms have approx. 12.5k pool. In a situation where two kingdoms are fighting, starting from all provinces being the same size, and one of them has 12.5k pool and the other has 18.4k pool, which do you think will win? If both kingdoms exit at the same time, and fight immediately, then kingdom B is likely to both always have the size advantage and always have the pump/prep advantage.

The problem is actually larger in the old system than the new system -- in the old system, those 5.9k acres wind up being concentrated onto one or two provinces, who can now explore more pool because t/ms got free acres in war. In the new system, those acres will always remain that distributed, such that the top province will always be only ~1.5k acres ahead of the 'average' capped growth province. Sure, in an immediate conflict that might represent a problem (though in an immediate conflict, those provinces also will not have re-grown on the bottom and the top won't have had time to pump WPA), but over the long term ~1.5k acres is much easier to overcome than ~3-5k as it represents a smaller % advantage.

Beyond that, you're actually wrong that it's an autowin. Think about the Divinity v Pandas war a few ages back, where Pandas spent their explore pool broadly across their kingdom while Divinity focused it on their top provinces, who were already significantly bigger -- and lost. Then BB did the same thing, and lost. Changes since then have empowered 'strong core' in fighting cows -- reduction of NW difference penalties on ops, reduction of topfeeding penalty in war, etc.

I've seen you complain a lot about inability to grow outside of war. It seems to me that your kingdom hasn't even tried. There's also, frankly, nothing more strategic about 'cram as many explore pool acres onto as few provinces as possible' (old system) than 'everyone explores the same amount of acres' (new system).

I also wouldn't count on changes that focus on helping the top 3-4 kingdoms to the detriment of the rest of the server.

I don't think the problem was worse under the old system at all. There were more options for team work and more options to place acres strategically.

"BB did not even try to grow...."

With the gains formula the way it is Zauper, how would you suggest doing that when there are no targets to gain off when you are 4-5K acres and none of the rest of the server will grow? Not to mention, the assinine relations system makes it easy for kingdoms to "refuse to war". The fix has jacked the game.

OK, we could have been complete assholes and mercilessly raked every war KD in the game that comes even close to 70% NW. Is that what will make your game work better? I doubt it. Some nub stole 1M gc off a province in BB just other day and got a 100 acre raze in return and then had to whine about how the BB province was being a bully. Developers have taken such pains to coddle the war KD's that they have wrecked what made playing competitively fun.

[Pillz]

I don't think the problem was worse under the old system at all. There were more options for team work and more options to place acres strategically.

"BB did not even try to grow...."

With the gains formula the way it is Zauper, how would you suggest doing that when there are no targets to gain off when you are 4-5K acres and none of the rest of the server will grow? Not to mention, the assinine relations system makes it easy for kingdoms to "refuse to war". The fix has jacked the game.

OK, we could have been complete assholes and mercilessly raked every war KD in the game that comes even close to 70% NW. Is that what will make your game work better? I doubt it. Some nub stole 1M gc off a province in BB just other day and got a 100 acre raze in return and then had to whine about how the BB province was being a bully. Developers have taken such pains to coddle the war KD's that they have wrecked what made playing competitively fun.

So you're not wrecking war kds not because of the game changes, but because they whine so you're avoiding them...and it is suddenly the administration fault because BB can't keep up with its competition, none of whom have expressed the same issues as you do repeatedly regarding growth?

[joeblogs]

as long as i get to hear bishops voice better and theres a general discussion of the "these are the suggestions we're looking for when it comes to next age tweaks" i'll be a happy man :D

Can we start a kick starter to get bishop a new mic?

[Sheister]

So you're not wrecking war kds not because of the game changes, but because they whine so you're avoiding them...and it is suddenly the administration fault because BB can't keep up with its competition, none of whom have expressed the same issues as you do repeatedly regarding growth?

Steel, I can't decide if you have a reading impairment or if you are just trolling.

[DavidC]

Ok let's keep this thread on topic.

Ask questions you would like to see answered via discussion on the broadcast

Post topics you'd like to hear discussed on the broadcast


If you would like to continue your discussion please do not do it here...

[MyNameIsMatija]

Will Bart's ban in the forums be prematurely lifted due to the apparent revenue drop?
Do any of the discussion topics hint at trying to decipher the enigma that is Bart, as a person and as a commanding influence to the game ever since he set foot on Utopian soil?

There, that's my small contribution.

[Goodwitch]

Are you working on better communication tools in game? If so, what are the things you are looking at. If not, please do.

[Calya]

1) We've implemented Munk as a kingdom recently in place of Upoopu and it's magnificent (I especially love the "attack calculator" that auto-sets your offense to just enough to break the target), but it seems very disruptive to those who, like me, who are more used to the "vanilla" visuals of Utopia. The changes to the display of most webpages is something I'm still not entirely used to, so is there a plan in the works to make the display more granular/customisable? For example, to continue to have Munk's integration with Utopia and the auto-sending of intel, attacks and ops, while not having the rest of the graphical changes? (Or having an option to have it like so).
Also, thanks to Munk for what must have been a colossal amount of work.

2) The forums seem largely populated with players from the top kingdoms, with fewer from the midtier and very few from the ghetto's. Is this a correct reading of the situation? If so, is this a problem? If so, are there any ideas to try to resolve it? If so, what are they?

3) As (sort of ex-)players who bought the game because you love it, has your experience of and affection towards Utopia changed now that you've been in the driving seat for a little while? There is such thing as leadership and player burnout. Hopefully that doesn't apply to owners as well.

--

Question 2 is phrased awfully; Apologies.
I won't be able to watch the stream live, but I'm looking forward to watching it after. These videos are a great idea.

[the juice man]

2) The forums seem largely populated with players from the top kingdoms, with fewer from the midtier and very few from the ghetto's. Is this a correct reading of the situation? If so, is this a problem? If so, are there any ideas to try to resolve it? If so, what are they?

Great points! Just a few cents on #2, which is great. The forums are public and anyone can post. If it seems only members of "top" kingdoms post here it is only an illusion. Anyone is free to post here and everyone's opinion is welcome. Ask your kd-mates to post in the community forums. More is better!! New peeps might dilute the sometimes negative atmosphere, though might be intimated at first by all the venom and slime and baggage. I hope the developers can encourage new peeps to post here!

[freaka]

dunno what you guys talked about in previous affairs, you talk too late for me to be on, BUT, I would like to know what is the answer - or what is the conclusion - on making kingdoms smaller - not 25 provs, but 15-20?

since the player base is going lower, and also, too few kds that go for top, why not make the kds smaller and make more competition?

[Madchess]

Since it might be the last broadcast before EOA I would like to hear if you think the mechanics involving the shell kingdoms will be needing an overhaul or you think they are where they should be at the moment?

Also how do you think adding Paladins Inspiration to a personality rather than having Inspire Army as a base spell has worked out?

[MyNameIsMatija]

2) The forums seem largely populated with players from the top kingdoms, with fewer from the midtier and very few from the ghetto's. Is this a correct reading of the situation? If so, is this a problem? If so, are there any ideas to try to resolve it? If so, what are they?

This used to be the case in the old oppressed Utopia. In the modern Spartan Utopia we have players from all of Utopia signing in to post in the forums. It is Bart the Enlightened who pioneered this idea. His heroic efforts have spoken to people's hearts and paved the path for Utopians of all classes to freely voice their opinions encompassed by his divine providence.

[Calya]

Great points! Just a few cents on #2, which is great. The forums are public and anyone can post. If it seems only members of "top" kingdoms post here it is only an illusion. Anyone is free to post here and everyone's opinion is welcome. Ask your kd-mates to post in the community forums. More is better!! New peeps might dilute the sometimes negative atmosphere, though might be intimated at first by all the venom and slime and baggage. I hope the developers can encourage new peeps to post here!

I agree. Less toxicity and more lower-ranked kingdoms/players posting here is something I think would benefit the game and the ambience of the forums themselves.
I deliberately didn't give my own opinion because that would have made it a leading question, but personally, I don't think the forums are particularly approachable. The ease with which one can create a profile here and give ones opinion notwithstanding, it's not a particularly friendly place. That said, I've never had a bad experience here. It's more an unquantifiable "vibe" that appears when rival kingdoms go at each other, or when a player creates a thread complaining about being razed while in war. In such a case, people seem happy to talk down to one another. I don't like that.
More generally, some aspects of the negative atmosphere that seems to exist in the forums also permeates "down" into the game. Or maybe the atmosphere in the game permeates "up" into the forums. Or both. I can't tell properly. As you may have figured out, I have more questions that answers on this topic. But I think it's interesting and thought I would bring it up to see if the people who run the game have a perspective of their own. Ultimately, my opinion is meandering and irrelevant, so I'd prefer that the original question(s) were answered rather than this rambling mess.