Notice Legalities

[Madchess]

Well you are free to do whatever with your cf's they can be broken by ticking the box and clicking break cf's after all no matter how many terms you included that restricts you from doing so.

The thing is if you get a reputation for playing dirty or backstabbing using tecnicalities no one will trust you, and you will find dealing with them to be a much harder task in the future.

I would agree with Elit and StratO on this one, treat people nicely and you can expect them to treat you with respect as well, treat them badly and you'll get backstabbed at the most convenient oppotunity and you would only have yourself to thank for that one, no matter who was technically in the right or technically in the wrong according to terms.

[MyNameIsMatija]

If you stay nice you will get used at some point. It depends what your goals and desired effects are. Fear can be a powerful tool to make people behave the way you want them to if this is your goal. If you intend to uphold a strong moral standard and respect your opponents you are probably on the right path but do prepare for the eventual backstab regardless. Don't expect others to be nice to you just because you are nice to them, this is not the goal of being nice. The goal of being nice is to genuinely help people, do not expect immediate results or anything in return, that's what complainers do.

[Goodwitch]

It's not a back door if it's an expected norm. It's a failure of your own diplomacy for not being in tune with the trend. Accept your defeat and honestly ask the other side to reconsider the notice in this manner. Do not blame them for treating you the way they expected you would treat them. Explain to them kindly this is not what you believed your deal to be (which they could not have known). It's on the other KD to do the sportsmanship, you messed up and it's up to them to help you out.
I strongly disagree with Mirana's proposition.

Some things should be implied. When you enter any contract you should be able to assume it is based on goodwill by both parties. If you buy a coffee mug and it leaks you would be mad. If the company then says that you had no reason to believe it would actually hold liquids as it was not specifically mentioned on the packaging you would be furious I imagine.
But of course you are free to disagree with me or any one else on this :) diversity is good. Not entirely sure it will increase your trustworthiness but then that's not really my concern and from the looks of it yours either.

[sUpeRneBU]

Probably another question which can be asked is the circumstance which lead to the CF being in place? Was it a brutal wave by one kd and the other was forced to a CF? If the answer is yes, the kd which got waved may be dead pissed and wanted a revenge and is trying to exploit the technicalities here. Also, how is the relationship between the two kingdoms now? Good? Bad? If there is no bad blood between the two kds, I don't see why the other would want to take advantage of the termless 72 hour notice CF unless they are prepared to get f**ked in return next age (since its EOA already). Remember, what comes around goes around.

[StratOcastle]

If you stay nice you will get used at some point. It depends what your goals and desired effects are. Fear can be a powerful tool to make people behave the way you want them to if this is your goal. If you intend to uphold a strong moral standard and respect your opponents you are probably on the right path but do prepare for the eventual backstab regardless. Don't expect others to be nice to you just because you are nice to them, this is not the goal of being nice. The goal of being nice is to genuinely help people, do not expect immediate results or anything in return, that's what complainers do.

I agree. Being morally good(not game good)and expecting results is foolhardy. It's important to remain grounded and measure your retributive use of tough love. Considering the world is rife with narcissists with a zero guilt complex we depend on a sort of splash effect to further good.

It's clear that many top players take the game very seriously and this is why, contextually, certain acts are reprehensible. In being mature I'm well aware I can expect nothing from a top kingdom other than off topic friendship. I think that's fair.

But this is why I've supported taking acres from db rather than raze. If we're going to hell we should grease the slide, not try to claw out of the inevitable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE0nenGeW5A

[MyNameIsMatija]

Some things should be implied. When you enter any contract you should be able to assume it is based on goodwill by both parties. If you buy a coffee mug and it leaks you would be mad. If the company then says that you had no reason to believe it would actually hold liquids as it was not specifically mentioned on the packaging you would be furious I imagine.
But of course you are free to disagree with me or any one else on this :) diversity is good. Not entirely sure it will increase your trustworthiness but then that's not really my concern and from the looks of it yours either.

If I buy a mug, put it in the oven and it breaks at 500 degrees Celsius I will not go to the store owner complaining how I thought the mug was heat-resistant.

[Madchess]

So far I've been able to help two teams get rid of unwanted players this age, first 1:18 who had an exploring Elf, Dora or something that was not following orders. The second kingdom 2:20 had a more serious problem a Dwarf, Glorious that defected in from one of the top kingdoms I assume, and who was razing their players from a much bigger size. This kingdom did a great job fighting back but still needed a little help or they would have been in a bad position.

I admit they are not top performing kingdoms, but both teams remain largely intact and more players would have surely left if they had failed to get rid of the troublemakers. I count that above the few hundred acres I got from hitting both of these players while you was to bussy razekilling robbers to lend them a hand, even if you can argue they took advantage of my kindness.

All of my cf's except for one with a top kingdom is blank, and while you can argue the people I got cf's with could just break and hit me the cf's was given out of mutual respect mostly after a random and retal or a series of hits back and forth, and as such they are keept by both sides.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Blank CFs is taking it easy and relaxed :=)
Try pushing your goals just a bit above your comfort zone and see how that works out.

[StratOcastle]

The raze falicy at the top is based in a single act of virtue surrounded by a sea of mud. If we coerce certain do gooders to waste more precious resources than the others to raze a db then the situation is often exploited. So this is really why I propose taking acres via tm. The viability of good manners in a competitive field is risky business.

In the case of a doomrider alien province raining terror in a small kingdom, the act of outside kingdom help is ergonomic to the cause. Thus tm is the correct and moral choice. That no top kingdom would help is indicative of the suspect nature of both the top and the grief wielding giant that imposes terror on the frail end of the player base.

How I pump up top and how I pump in the ghetto are altogether different. The top kingdoms offer that if something goes wrong to let the LS handle it. In the ghetto the predators are in every direction. There is no hammering down without consequences from the side or from the top. CF is on the merit of ones word and that is all. If someone can exploit it the CF may be broken. Thus, a constant level of preparedness forces a compromise in lethality.

It's that I enjoy this challenge in a micro-kingdom. As my contemporaries rise in honor, science and acreage I'm forced to deal with an increasingly effective environment. I see provinces with well over a 75% of my offense and defense with rituals in play that I must retal to progress. The challenge isn't the same as top competition but the strife mirrors the toughness necessary to overcome worthy adversaries. This is why I'm completely comfortable in a top kingdom in a given age off. There's no level of stress I haven't endured, no activity I haven't matched. The strategy intrigues me, but I enjoy freedom more than glory.

[Madchess]

I wonder if retals only (atleast until science is maxed) or adding that I can explore for next age is going to be most out of my comford zone, probably the later, or are we talking about hitting that fat human in Divinity this age?

They already tried to random a while back, I think I'm up 2-400 acres on the retal + ambush, so I do not feel the need to hit them, also they probably deserve to be 1 since none of their competitors had the balls to stop them, you are free to try it if it ticles your curiosity and it is outside your comford zone.

[Meep]

For someone who thinks he has deals he never even made, its pretty ironic thar you think every commin sense term has to be explicitly included in every cf.

[MyNameIsMatija]

I don't think that Meep. I just know what the usual no notice into hostile/war CF looks like. It says no notice into hostile/war. If you think notices can not be served into hostile/war at all or that this should be the norm, please go ahead and make it public and well known. Making the rules as you go only works if you have enough influence to do so in practice when it matters. We're only discussing current norms here and the theory behind it.

[StratOcastle]

I wonder if retals only (atleast until science is maxed) or adding that I can explore for next age is going to be most out of my comford zone, probably the later, or are we talking about hitting that fat human in Divinity this age?

They already tried to random a while back, I think I'm up 2-400 acres on the retal + ambush, so I do not feel the need to hit them, also they probably deserve to be 1 since none of their competitors had the balls to stop them, you are free to try it if it ticles your curiosity and it is outside your comford zone.

Ditto.

Look guys, it's not naivety. Perhaps it's that the shenanigans of diplomacy are enjoyable. If it is, it makes me look like an old fogey lol...But if it isn't, you have to ask yourselves about your artificial pump environment.

All logical strategic moves this age, in the top, have been subverted by diplomacy. I realize that's simplistic in linearity because that's why you diplo from a point of weakness. Conversely, from a point of strength this is unnecessary. Sure the landscape shifts: just because you have leverage doesn't mean you should use it, but I'd always reserve the option to wave a threat.

Did we forget the balance of terror? It's not just a Star Trek episode it's a concept along the lines of mutually assured destruction. It's that we all have the power to ruin each others age through maniacal predatory drive. We should not be in the regular practice of standing over a redneck while he's getting his drink on. It makes a guy want to crush a bottle on another ones head. So we opt, as cultured beings, to grant personal space at the very least.