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Thread: A Call for Public Diplomacy

  1. #1
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    A Call for Public Diplomacy

    No one in the top trusts anyone else, and obviously for good reason. Any agreement becomes worthless somewhere around the midpoint of each age, and often before that. Once it goes south, the rest of us have to watch as both sides describe completely different agreements and spin stories about why either the agreement didn't prevent what happened or whatever happened was excusable.

    So why not post them as a public record? If kingdoms are worried about keeping their relations secret so they can scheme more effectively, they could be posted in a depository and one of the terms of the negotiation could be the date on which the agreements become public.

    I guess it wouldn't work since no one can trust anyone else not to leak the agreements. If nothing else, kingdoms should draft more detailed agreements rather than the vague chat log or in-game back-and-forth that basically invites hostility.

  2. #2
    Dear Friend Korp's Avatar
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    Would be abused

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    You're probably right.

  4. #4
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    That would be a great idea if the intention of agreements was ever to actually stick to them. That's not the case though lol

    Just sit back and watch Lady Karma do her thing :) sometimes it takes longer than others but in the end she always shows up just in time

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    I'm of the impression there isn't time for diplomacy. This is from a qualitative perspective.

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  6. #6
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    Yea, that'll work, lol
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  7. #7
    Sir Postalot Pillz's Avatar
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    I try to do all my diplo in public.

  8. #8
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    It would at least be better than the propaganda war of all against all, but, of course, those who benefit from the ability to mischaracterize agreements are the ones who will never give up that ability.

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    The appeal is rare but they seem to enjoy it. I'm telling you, it's just like the salesmen at the cigar shop.

    Humor me for a sec;

    but if I asked(and I would never) the salesmen how much they could sell a random car for, it was like watching wrestling promos.

    There's wide arms, blue eyed Johnny

    There's squinty eyes, cigarette drag Nelson

    There's soft smile, elegant Gary

    Admittedly, I'm a sucker for the Gary types but I'm aware of the circumstances. Like these guys, the entire kingdom isn't represented, but their styles represent what you perceive as kingdom personality. I'd imagine there's 15-20 players you'd get along with on each roster.

    My intention is not to burst the diplo-bubble, but for the anxious to simply look at the chart position and kingdom strat. I couldn't be in diplo with these guys because I'd feel like some goofball pulled from the audience for some magical comedy. - No, if I ran a kingdom I'd draft my own cartoon to specialize in diplo. The fun would be jumping through the hoops they agreed to over a few proverbial drinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
    love that thick mahogany back with no belly carve or anything...pure thick wood ! The thing ROCK is made of !
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  10. #10
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    Just wave and then worry about diplo. If someone complains, wave again or respond with something like, "You shouldn't have been standing there."
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  11. #11
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    This would be nice if it also didn't expose side deals to allies and all the other stuff that people want to keep hush hush.

  12. #12
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    This is a classic repeated prisoner's dilemma, lol.

    In order for this to work, you need to have a way to punish those who don't abide by this system (all KDs refuse to diplo with them or something), or you can only hope that everyone sticks to the agreement out of sheer honesty. Because with the lack of a deterrent, it is always more beneficial to defect - even in the situation of the depository. And even the "punishment" is based on good faith, because people backdoor diploing with the "punished" STILL stand to gain over those who don't. In other words, it has little to no hope of working because it's simply not enforceable.
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  13. #13
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    Let's create some form of league of nations, I'm sure it will work this time around!
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  14. #14
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    What so hard to keep grudge? If some one break deal with you dont make deal with him next age. Other option is to make deal and break it same way how you got DB. Its not so hard.

    All idea about posting deals in forum is complete stupid. All what mater in deals is timing. If you know when your competitors CFs expire you can set your deals durations in favorable for you way. If i make deal with kingdom X and after it they post it in forum they can forget about having ever deal with me till disband...
    Last edited by Elit; 08-08-2017 at 17:16.
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  15. #15
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    While the sentiment of openness to try mitigate the number of deal breaks is nice enough, it kind of removes a crucial aspect of deal brokering as shpanda and Elit points out.

    Contrary to popular belief, top kingdoms doesn't CF to avoid competing between themselves, but rather to make sure that they can compete in a semi-organised fashion and eliminating some chance/luck aspects (making sure prep times are negotiated for instance). With CFs allowing for prep periods, and with a system of staggering CFs to make sure you only have to worry about a limited amount of kingdoms at any given stage top kingdoms have paved wave for something similar to a sport tournament (ideally). But while the seeding is public in sport tournaments, it's decided by closed-door diplo in utopia.

    What you are asking for then, is not merely that deals are made public, but that the entire tournament seeding is made public (who will get to engage who and when and under what pre-conditions). While that sounds nice there's a range of problems with that:

    1) First deals on the table will put the involved parties at a huge disadvantage. Knowing when/how two kds are eligible to fight will impact how everyone else deals with them (and among themselves) to further their own advantages and opponents disadvantages.
    2) Some would claim there would be zero competition knowing the seeding (and seeing kd setups). Wars and crowns in the top are won by superior positioning just as much (or more) than conflict execution. To paraphrase Godly: war is a stance where you collect (or lose) the acres you've already won in prep and positioning. Simplified ofc. But there's something to it.
    3) Deals aren't all made from start, but over the course of an age depending on a lot of factors. One such factor is setups. Unlike in sports, utopia kingdoms grow stronger/weaker over the course of an age based purely on setup. Some setups are made for early domination (allowing favourable negotiation position for late game for instance) others for late age utility. Visible deals will severely disrupt the mechanics involved in setup determination. Knowing what deals a weak starter has, for instance, makes countering their late play a lot easier - nerfing some setup considerations and simplifies the game.
    4) It will eliminate a quite interesting top-play meta. Playing the diplo-game successfully requires skill, connections and meta know-how. It makes the top community vibrant to a certain extent.

    All in all I think open deals would dumb down top play to either a) outcome clear from start or b) evolve the game into a tournament game proper, which is also a dumbing down of the game...
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