War kds hold war stance sacred!Originally Posted by Pillz
War kds hold war stance sacred!
Discord: Hex | IRC: Hextor / Avenger
After reading to page 5 of this thread, I have come to the conclusion that my many years of playing utopia (been 5 years since I played last though) will be coming to an end very shorty...
If hitting into a war just to secure a provincial crown is to be considered acceptable behaviour by the community , then sadly, I see nothing but a dismal future for the game...
It's not 'outplaying' it's actually quite ****ty playing... if anything The elfs kingdom that is constantly warring while the elf is growing, is doing the 'out playing' of Barts kingdom.
My kingdom hit into barts kingdom when they were around the 10 - 12 M mark, 3 of us tapped one of their provinces who felt having 20 DPA and almost no OPA with a 16M negative trade balance was the way to grow, he lost about 600 acres in the hits... Bart made a lot of noise with our monarch and steward and as I was one of the attackers I messaged Bart and had a fair bit a dialog with him because his demands for compensation was unreasonable..
Point was it was going to take them a lot more time and energy to retal for the acres than it was worth it when their province was at fault for essentially having inadequate defense and simply expecting not to be top fed from a lower tier kingdom. In the end I think they took back the acres of one of the attacks from two provinces but ultimately we come out in front... They where not in war not in hostile...
Funnily enough the most toxicity in war forums that I have encountered this age has been from players in the middle and lower tiers... Randoming into the top kingdoms has usually not been a problem, they bottom feed, we top feed etc :D and I have hit into a few of the top kingdoms, with only 2:2 every making any noise about it...
Seriously though, denying a provincial crown to someone who has probably worked damned hard to get it and has grown hard and during wars and cowed for his kingdom so they could benefit during those wars, through out of war hits is disgraceful behaviour at its finest...
And people seem to want to get more players in the game, toxic in game messaging and this kind of behaviour will do more to drive players away than all the positive things the devs can do...
There are some interesting metrics on how many players a single griefing player can drive away...
Food for thought I think...
It's hard to link to an implied or unwritten rule. I'll grant you that.
It's also hard to mesh Fair & Honourable Play, specifically that
with an attitude to hitting into war that is undeniably selfish, cowardly and ruins the enjoyment for the victim(s). Anyone who gets hit in war, regardless of size or experience, automatically (and rightfully) gets irate that the "sanctity" of war is not being honoured. Like it or not, the entire server views it as unethical when they get hit by other kingdoms while they're in war.The operators of the game aim to maintain the highest standards of ethics within the game. ... We rely on our users to ... provide an enjoyable gaming environment for users of all ages and backgrounds
It seems like the "honour-based" or karmic mentality of "I won't do it as I don't want it done to me" is fraying. That's not a good thing. This type of behaviour only encourages more of the same, and the more undeserving victims there are, the fewer players there'll be. That's also not a good thing.
Hitting into war is a callous and mean-spirited thing to do. If someone needs a rule to tell them not to be callous or mean-spirited there's a problem with their moral compass, not the rules of the game.
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Newsflash: war is a stance. Hitting into them is just not cool. It's up to the community to enforce the rule of cool.
Discord: Hex | IRC: Hextor / Avenger
It's not just the war kds. Growth kds "respect" and enforce this "taboo" too (even when the hitting kd would have motives to hit in).
to give just some more recent examples a few ages ago emeriti was forced to give acres back after hitting into pandas? war, being noticed prior and forced to train up - pandas (again not sure if they were the kd) noticed someone else too and went into war with them.
cr was gb (2-3 ages ago?) for hitting into a war (wsk vs someone) that was perceived at the time as a running from the b2b.
in both cases there were mitigating circumstances for hitting in war and about same stake for doing it - crowning (or more since we're talking here only about a prov crown - bartas case) and still it was perceived, labeled and actioned as a taboo.
top kingdoms respect the stance when it benefits them and they feel they can get away with it they do not.
War is simply a stance and it has been forever fine to hit into said stance. It is the communities ability/responsibility to enforce it.
You simply think the community is ok with it... people are telling you it can not be enforced since bart got a position to power play and he is. Please look around the server... tell the thread who can enforce punishment onto him?After reading to page 5 of this thread, I have come to the conclusion that my many years of playing utopia (been 5 years since I played last though) will be coming to an end very shorty...
If hitting into a war just to secure a provincial crown is to be considered acceptable behaviour by the community , then sadly, I see nothing but a dismal future for the game...
It's not 'outplaying' it's actually quite ****ty playing... if anything The elfs kingdom that is constantly warring while the elf is growing, is doing the 'out playing' of Barts kingdom.
My kingdom hit into barts kingdom when they were around the 10 - 12 M mark, 3 of us tapped one of their provinces who felt having 20 DPA and almost no OPA with a 16M negative trade balance was the way to grow, he lost about 600 acres in the hits... Bart made a lot of noise with our monarch and steward and as I was one of the attackers I messaged Bart and had a fair bit a dialog with him because his demands for compensation was unreasonable..
Point was it was going to take them a lot more time and energy to retal for the acres than it was worth it when their province was at fault for essentially having inadequate defense and simply expecting not to be top fed from a lower tier kingdom. In the end I think they took back the acres of one of the attacks from two provinces but ultimately we come out in front... They where not in war not in hostile...
Funnily enough the most toxicity in war forums that I have encountered this age has been from players in the middle and lower tiers... Randoming into the top kingdoms has usually not been a problem, they bottom feed, we top feed etc :D and I have hit into a few of the top kingdoms, with only 2:2 every making any noise about it...
Seriously though, denying a provincial crown to someone who has probably worked damned hard to get it and has grown hard and during wars and cowed for his kingdom so they could benefit during those wars, through out of war hits is disgraceful behaviour at its finest...
And people seem to want to get more players in the game, toxic in game messaging and this kind of behaviour will do more to drive players away than all the positive things the devs can do...
There are some interesting metrics on how many players a single griefing player can drive away...
Food for thought I think...
I remembered there is one. The so called flogger who claimed he will hunt down bart this age. What a joke. In the end, flogger involved in presenting the crown to bart.hohoho
are you looking now... no one is in position to do anything so bart can freely control province crowns
The problem with war being "just a stance" and hitting into it: you cannot use your meter against the interjecting into war kingdom. You don't get ops against them nor is there any way to retaliate except to hit out of war at significantly reduced gains.
That's not entirely true. Meter still builds. You can declare on them when you leave war.
The damage is usually done tho. Yes, you can declare, if your kingdom is big enough by then.
Your crown would have been just as tainted.
Suppose you can win freely if you just CF everybody.
Honestly, be more of a drama queen you spineless windbag.
So you thinking hitting into others wars are the same as cfing kingdoms?
I neither implied or condoned it.
I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of this thread and the complaints thereafter.
Things I'd personally never do:
1) Hit into war
2) CF every kingdom around me
Here's my view of the top.
CF everybody in range.
Bottom feed kingdoms smaller that have limited retaliation options
Complain if anybody does something that affects me
Do I think hitting into a war is ****ty....yes, but not any worse than kingdoms that hit into kingdoms 70%+ smaller than them. Both sides are doing what they consider in the best interest of their kingdom charting.
*shrug*
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