War is demonstrably not a stance. Stances are unilateral positions taken by kingdoms that can give the provinces in a kingdom additional bonuses and weaknesses.
War is a unique relationship between two kingdoms that by design excludes all other kingdoms in the game for the duration it exists. (I.e. You can't be at war with more than one kingdom at the same time).
Ghetto Nightmare
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Monarch of Pasty Troll Kingdom (Ages 10 - 26)
Monarch of Seagulls (Ages 49 - 69)
Monarch of Mixed Nuts (Age 74-???)
I have not followed this conversation but splitting hairs, isn't war a relation? As opposed to a stance?
unfriendly, hostile and war = relations
normal, aggressive, fortified (or whatever it is now) = stances
right?
That said, no one complains about hitting into an "unfriendly". It happens all the time. Few make a huge stink (aka forum posts) about hits into a hostile, even though it is frowned upon. So, why all the drama about war?
"having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
"while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date
The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.
How exactly is it different? If two kingdoms are clearly hitting each other for war, a kingdom hitting them in unfriendly helps the other kingdom just as much as hitting into a war. You could probably argue that the unfriendly attack does more damage to swinging the outcome.
Monarch of Pasty Troll Kingdom (Ages 10 - 26)
Monarch of Seagulls (Ages 49 - 69)
Monarch of Mixed Nuts (Age 74-???)
I disagree. I don't think it's wrong at all (but I wouldn't, would I?).
War is unique; Like stances it gives (mostly) advantages to a kingdom. Unlike stances, it gives exactly the same (mostly) advantages to two kingdoms, simultaneously. War is a relationship; It requires an element of consent between two kingdoms to accomplish.
It is not intended to protect you from all outside interference (due to potential abuse of the system/fake wars) but it is equally not possible to be at war with two different kingdoms at the same time.
The mechanics of the game dissuade hits into or out of war. The entire player-base feels aggrieved when a third party interferes in their war by hitting them. Those who hit into war know that the people they hit are either going to have get out of the war (likely with a loss) or else continue to suffer hits in what was a 1v1 battle; In either case, morale is knocked down and players out of the game.
If you care about Utopia as a game, any of these are solid reasons not to hit into a war.
I agree that Unfriendly seems largely ignorable at this point, and hits into Hostile are generally frowned upon but tolerated. But War and Unfriendly/Hostile are dramatically different situations. For me, the difference is that Unfriendly and Hostile situations can be unilaterally created by a kingdom. War only happens when both kingdoms essentially agree to fight each other.Originally Posted by Sheister
And to add to what Phylast mentioned; If someone waves you during a non-war situation, you have not-bad options; You can take the new threat to war/retaliate. You can ignore them and retaliate later (possibly with the button if you're lucky). If you're in war, you're options are not-good; Withdraw and try to rebuild to take on the newcomer. Or "suck it up" and try to fight two kingdoms at once.
If this comes across as a big whine about how unfair it is to hit into a war, that's ok. It is unfair to hit into a war. But it's also malicious. That's much, much worse for the longterm survival of the game.
Ghetto Nightmare
Age 96 - Chaise Longue/Lighthouse Fire | Age 95 - Telephone The Real Ham Jackson | Age 94 - Final Girl | Age 93 - Superdrug | Age 92 - No Gods No Masters | Age 91 - Hunting The Wren | Age 90 - I Useta Lover | Age 89 - The Young People | Age 88 - Suspended in Gaffa | Age 87 - Aversadze | Age 85-86 - [Making A Baby] | Age 84 - Gay Girls | Age 83 - Avant Gardener | Age 82 - Girls Talk | Age 81 - Aversadze | Age 80 - Somewhere A Clock Is Ticking | Age 79 - Stella Was A Diver And She Was Always Down | Age 78 - The Lightning Strike | Age 77 - So Like A Rose | Age 76 - Aversadze/Kemosabe | Age 75 - Not Your Kind Of People/Good Shot, Good Soldier | Age 74 - Godspell | Age 73 - Time Will Destroy Everything/Versions of Hate | Age 72 - Another New World | Age 71 - Cold Old Fire | Age 70 - Battlestations | Age 69 - Tilted | Age 68 - Spite & Malice | Age 67 - I, The Hand Grenade | Age 66 - The Mother We Share | Age 65 - Pretty Keen On Centrefolds | Age 64 - Wangernumb | Age 63 - Aversadze | Age 62 - Aversadze | Age 60 - Lynx | Age 59 - Astral | Age 58 - That's How You Get Ants | Age 57 - Aversadze
War is a stance that overrides all relations.
direct from the wiki on relations.
Attacking another kingdom affects the relations between the two kingdoms.
By continually attacking, your kingdom's conflict level against said kingdom will elevate, thereby changing the relation type; first from Normal to Unfriendly, and then Hostile.
There are five relation types, each of which have various benefits and penalties.
Clearly war is a relation...
Stances as previously mentioned are a state that each kingdom can set and have a specific benefit / penalty for the kingdom setting it and other kingdom interacting with the kingdom that set the stance.
Relations require the actions of one or both kingdoms, hence one kingdom can be hostile with another while the other remains normal or unfriendly in their relationship with the attacking kingdom, when the relationship degrades ultimately it will degrade into war which over rides all other relations and neutralises any stance effects.
fairly clear IMHO.
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