Congratulations to the age 72 winners!

[JeffT]

You don't see anything in the rules because you changed them. The original rules are posted in this thread and they are pretty clear persons under 13 can not play, at all, and make no mention of exceptions being doled out in instances of parental consent.

And why just 1 province? The whole KD was aware they had a player that violated the rules. So it's ok for someone to have multies to bait his KD some wars, and the KD won't be auctioned because only 1 player directly violated the rules?

Get a grip Zauper.

Are you trying to refer to this line, which is the only thing I see looking back a few pages:

This Site is offered and made available only to users thirteen (13) years of age or older. If you are not yet 13 years of age, please discontinue using the Site immediately. If you are found to be underage, your account may be terminated without notice.

If you are, I'd suggest you re-learn English.

Baiting wars gets a kingdom actioned, as you well know. Being a multi gets the player actioned. This is a player/province level, not kingdom level.

[Excalibus]

well I am neither biased against bart or sparta as I do not have a dog in this fight, nor have I any affilliation with the devs etc... and I am defintiely not retarded, and I am glad that the devs have taken the stance that if a kingdom is found to have cheated, not only is it actioned at the time of the cheating being proven but they are also makng the consequences lasting by removal of any rankings for the kingdom and any provinces that remain in the said kingdom at the end of the age...

Now that it is 'known' that this is the punishment for cheating, it is a step closer to bringing a sense of fair play back into the game, something it definitely needs.

As for Panthira and her son playing, it seems to me she sought permission from the owners for him to play before hand, so therefore she broke no rules... she went about it the right way, again I have no dog in this fight but common sense has to prevail, had she not asked permission before hand etc, then yes you could probably argue she was breaking the rules... Because she did ask permission there is absolutely no violation of the rules...

From the terms of use - Utopia Wiki

This Site is offered and made available only to users thirteen (13) years of age or older. If you are not yet 13 years of age, please discontinue using the Site immediately. If you are found to be underage, your account may be terminated without notice.



From the privacy policy - Utopia Wiki

Age Limitation. This Site and the Services are not directed to person under the age of 13. If you become aware that your child under the age of 13 has provided us with personal information without your consent, please contact us at David@MUGAGamingLLC.com. We do not knowingly collect or solicit information from, market to or accept services from persons under the age of 13 years old. If we become aware that a person under the age of 13 has provided us with personal information, we take steps to remove such information.

So parental consent was clearly given (as per Panthiras statments above) and the devs accepted that and allowed him to play. Therefore no cheating or rule breaking was committed. He played with the consent of his parent and with the consent of the devs / owners. Sure they state that the game is not targetted towards those under 13, and that persons found playing under the age of 13 MAY BE TERMINATED, but it does not say WILL BE WILL BE TERMINATE.

Seriously just accept that Bart was caught cheating (apparently) and the results and ramifications of that have more consequences that perhaps you guys thought would happen. Now you know the consequences for cheating have EOA ramifications, move on...

[Pillz]

Are you trying to refer to this line, which is the only thing I see looking back a few pages:


If you are, I'd suggest you re-learn English.

Baiting wars gets a kingdom actioned, as you well know. Being a multi gets the player actioned. This is a player/province level, not kingdom level.

Having an extra player is not a kd level issue when they're aware it's a rule violation?

If you wanna learn English let's check this part:

This Site is offered and made available only to users thirteen (13) years of age or older. If you are not yet 13 years of age, please discontinue using the Site immediately.

[Mongoose]

Excalibus common sense never works in these arguments. Utopian lawyers are never wrong and it's always devs fault.

At least it sure seems that way in the few threads i seem to waste my time reading.

[Sweetiepie]

This feels like a good time to point out that Bart has emailed support admitting to FWing again as recently as 48 hours prior to age end (when 1:19 was forced OOW for fake warring).

I'm not actually sure what you are taking issue with here -- Panthira's son playing? I don't see anything in the rules that someone under the age of... 13, presumably? That's the COPPA age at least.. must not play. If there were, the appropriate punishment would be to remove his province from the rankings (technically, it would be to delete his province and not allow him to return). Unfortunately, this reporting is happening off age -- the rankings have already been generated, which means no such punishment is possible.

Rules snapshot from 2016: https://web.archive.org/web/20160423...tle=Game_Rules
From 2 months ago: https://web.archive.org/web/20170606...tle=Game_Rules

What they Goodwitch is whinging about is looking for any old claptrap to say 'See, see the devs have friends and they play favourites!' Most normal people wouldn't stoop to use a player's personal situation and family links to go 'Amm, you're breaking the rules, delete delete!'

I do think most normal people in Uto would agree the following

a) An employee handbook doesn't say you can't **** on your desk, but it's not allowed anyway and you will get sacked if you do it
b) A creative approach to get a better Uto environment on track is a positive move
c) Some peeps want you to be ultra specific and tied down in relation to rules and punishment so they can find a way round them...see 'A'
d) Acting the way you guys did was a masterstroke - because if you had done it at the point the initial offences happened, they would have **** played and griefed for the rest of the round, having nothing else to aim for
e) It's a good lesson for others to remember to play right to the end of the age, not slack off because 'we can't crown'
f) Bart is probably laughing at the situation himself and seeing the funny side. Who knows, he may even have wanted it to come to this in order to clean up general top play. I wouldn't even be surprised. I think it's a mistake to underestimate him - and I don't even know him except for reading the forums.
g) we start with the assumption that you don't have favourites - although we might be wrong - and in support of that assumption after all Bishop although he has his failings has never, ever been accused of playing favourites in game, and heaven knows there are enough paranoid folks on here to shout if there was any suspicion. Would Bishop stand by and allow you to play favourites without saying a word to anyone - I don't think so. Doubtless Goodwitch will say that he has been chloroformed and tied up in his room. Without an internet connection and with the dodgy mic ;)

The end game = don't cheat and you'll be fine.
Hopefully one day it will also be don't ****play, and you'll be fine. I think this is a step in that direction. Goodwitch, I think that's what you're really keening about. The fact that ****play was stopped (Panthira's FW)....see 'A' in this list. IMO that situation was also handled correctly, despite your squealing that her kd should have been punished for it.

Just because kds have been allowed to get away with all sorts in the past doesn't mean that's the case now and that is not a bad thing.

I really hate agreeing with Sheister, but I think his posts in this thread are spot on.

[Excalibus]

Excalibus common sense never works in these arguments. Utopian lawyers are never wrong and it's always devs fault.

At least it sure seems that way in the few threads i seem to waste my time reading.

yeah I know this :) common sense goes out the window when "you" are the one who was affected by the consequences of "your" actions it seems

(you and your not directed at you mongoose but in the ubiquitous sense)

[Sheister]

a) An employee handbook doesn't say you can't **** on your desk, but it's not allowed anyway and you will get sacked if you do it

I appreciate and respect your humanity. I appreciate this line even more.

[stealth4785]

The game is about growing. You're supposed to grow. Why should the top handicap themselves to fight for kds that can't grow?

At least in the 30s there was an excuse to stay small, there were lots of kds of equal skill at those sizes. Some even could beat top kds and did. So top kds would take ages to war and honor crown.

Now there are no 'war' kds that can beat top kds (least not without funding) and there are all of like, 4 decent ones? Why would top kds slow down to, Essentially, pick at leftovers

This game isn't about growing. This game isn't about warring either. They are objectives. They are how each one of us measures success and they differ greatly.

The game is how y'all maneuver around to get there. The game is why a thread like this exists.

[Bananamancer2000]

I'm not actually sure what you are taking issue with here -- Panthira's son playing? I don't see anything in the rules that someone under the age of... 13, presumably? That's the COPPA age at least.. must not play. If there were, the appropriate punishment would be to remove his province from the rankings (technically, it would be to delete his province and not allow him to return). Unfortunately, this reporting is happening off age -- the rankings have already been generated, which means no such punishment is possible.

I'm glad to hear, the kid crowned this age and I'm extremely proud of him. He's worked very hard the last year and a half, and has become a very reliable core. From spending a week at 50a and under constant pk threat, to taking the undead crown.

[Sheister]

This game isn't about growing. This game isn't about warring either. They are objectives. They are how each one of us measures success and they differ greatly.

The game is how y'all maneuver around to get there. The game is why a thread like this exists.

So stop hatin' the playa?

[Sheister]

..... to taking the undead crown.

Do we need to ask if Steel/Pillz thinks we should charge him with theft?

[Bananamancer2000]

Do we need to ask if Steel/Pillz thinks we should charge him with theft?

I'm sure he'd say worse.

We.had top 3 ud, but it meant a lot to me for him to take it.

[stealth4785]

So stop hatin' the playa?

Has to go both ways.

This game is about teamwork. The truest test of the game would be an identical mirror match. Predetermined, identical set ups. Then you choose how you want to measure your success. Now its all about skill; on a micro level, who can manage a province better or on a macro level how a kingdom achieves that objective.

[Sheister]

Has to go both ways.

This game is about teamwork. The truest test of the game would be an identical mirror match. Predetermined, identical set ups. Then you choose how you want to measure your success. Now its all about skill; on a micro level, who can manage a province better or on a macro level how a kingdom achieves that objective.

So. To you it is all measured on single conflicts. But the game is majority played outside of conflicts. Thus, it is the kingdom and province management outside of conflict that is actually the most important part of the game. This is just as it is in all competitions. Basketball, soccer, football, etc. all of these games are more about what happens off the ball than on it.

I think you just need to open your eyes a bit.

Put it another way. You want to ignore over half the game to get to your true test.

We like to play the whole game.

Call us when you want to play utopia instead of checkers.

[Pillz]

This game has turned to ****.

Letting a cheater take a race crown because the admins, aware of the cheating for ages, never took action because nobody brought it up until after EoA.