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Thread: Congratulations to the age 72 winners!

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    You are whining that people can't compete on an equal footing, but they are at the start. Then they separate according to their skill.

    You want the game to force mechanics so that more skilled people are held back.

    Go read Harrison Bergeron

    http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html
    I want to know which kingdom is the most talented. In order to do such, I need to eliminate as many variables as possible.

    Same kingdom size, same race and personality combinations, same stipulations regarding ceasefires and diplomacy. Pick your goal, whether it be #1 in land, #1 warring, or just a good old fashioned one versus one war, that's how you determine which kingdom is the most talented. At this point its all about strategy, the strength of the individuals and the strength of the kingdom.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    No, in a competition all start at the same point and are separated by skill. Stop falling prey to the same mistakes of that other guy.... whatever his nick is.

    Would you agree that in a race against Bolt, everyone starts at the starting line? Or should everyone else start 50 meters ahead of him in a 100 meter race? Or should Mr. Bolt have to run the race carrying a 100lb weight?
    But if everyone starting at equal footing at the start of the race everyone would be equally fast. But thats not the cae, Bolt is the fastest. Is that then really equally footing? That everyone starts at equall footing would imply that everyone has the same chance and possibility to perform well which isnt the case.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealth4785 View Post
    For example, let's take Sparta and BB and give them each the same twenty-five race and personality combinations and agree that land charts is how you want to measure success. Now its how well Sparta's twenty five plays against BBs twenty five over the course of the age. Toss in another stipulation - no CFs and you'll get a measure of skill and talent.

    Utopia is about province management and teamwork. The game is how you get there - the reason why threads like these exist.
    I'd put my money on BB (or any other top contending KD for that matter) because Bart has never achieved anything without dealbreaking/cheating or being fed millions of GC to fund his wars.
    Bart has never even dared to compete at the top. If he's so good, why doesn't he compete without cheating/dealbreaking? Bart: I dare you!

    As for the CF part: they are part of the game. If you are unable to set your CFs properly, it will hurt you at some point. BB made a dumb mistake to put WSK and Emeriti at the same time. It ended up costing them.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    Bolt is the fastest
    He holds the record still, but he is no longer the fastest. Every age is a new start; Bolt's prime is a few ages ago. His previous successes are meaningless once everyone resets.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    But if everyone starting at equal footing at the start of the race everyone would be equally fast. But thats not the cae, Bolt is the fastest. Is that then really equally footing? That everyone starts at equall footing would imply that everyone has the same chance and possibility to perform well which isnt the case.
    His analogy doesn't make sense, Korp, but I believe you are understanding what I'm trying to convey.

    Sheister, let's look at it like a math equation. I want to figure out which kingdom has the most talented, skilled players, X. In order to solve for X, we need to isolate and exclude every other variable we can, race and personalities, the number of provinces, start time, etc.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by protector View Post
    I'd put my money on BB (or any other top contending KD for that matter) because Bart has never achieved anything without dealbreaking/cheating or being fed millions of GC to fund his wars.
    Bart has never even dared to compete at the top. If he's so good, why doesn't he compete without cheating/dealbreaking? Bart: I dare you!

    As for the CF part: they are part of the game. If you are unable to set your CFs properly, it will hurt you at some point. BB made a dumb mistake to put WSK and Emeriti at the same time. It ended up costing them.
    It was hypothetical, but would be interesting to see how it would play out.

    Slippery slope when you talk about ceasefires - they aren't always used as intended. In my hypothetical situation, there would be no ceasefires.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealth4785 View Post
    Sheister, let's look at it like a math equation. I want to figure out which kingdom has the most talented, skilled players, X. In order to solve for X, we need to isolate and exclude every other variable we can, race and personalities, the number of provinces, start time, etc.
    Once again. They are all equal at t=0. Then everyone starts competeing and every age, the same kingdoms end up on top. It is not a question of who has the most talented, skilled players.

    You propose gimping the most talented and skilled players so that your nublet war KD's can war on "equal footing" which as you can see from Korp's posts, is ambiguous at best. He is interpreting it that everyone has to be equal skill whereas you are positing a fantasy world where everyone is constantly at exactly the same point at any given time "t" throughout the age and we can rack up war after war always starting with the same resources etc.

    The game is not about individual engagements. The game is about managing resources over the entire arc of time from t=0 until t=ending tick. Your desire to have constant resets so that your nubness can meet a given kingdom at a specific equivalent set of resources ignores the desires of kingdoms to pursue different strategies by race sleectiong, personality selection, acre distribution, etc etc.

    In short, you don't want to play utopia. You want to play some other game.

    Go play that.
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  8. #368
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    I love the OCD in this(not sarcasm). We all have our things. I don't need actual capability behind my numbers but I want them to be pretty.

    Fighting my style last age it was when the acre gains tally knocked my digital art off kilter. I had everything at divisible by 10. When I got dog piled by 3 kingdoms I ceased my retaliations when I fell back on my 10s.

    I just want the community to know if I continue retaliating you it's not that I'm upset, it's that I'm not divisible by 10. I'm attempting to go my second age without using my pool and only gain through retal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
    Correct me then, instead of being a dick about it.
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  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    Once again. They are all equal at t=0. Then everyone starts competeing and every age, the same kingdoms end up on top. It is not a question of who has the most talented, skilled players.

    You propose gimping the most talented and skilled players so that your nublet war KD's can war on "equal footing" which as you can see from Korp's posts, is ambiguous at best. He is interpreting it that everyone has to be equal skill whereas you are positing a fantasy world where everyone is constantly at exactly the same point at any given time "t" throughout the age and we can rack up war after war always starting with the same resources etc.

    The game is not about individual engagements. The game is about managing resources over the entire arc of time from t=0 until t=ending tick. Your desire to have constant resets so that your nubness can meet a given kingdom at a specific equivalent set of resources ignores the desires of kingdoms to pursue different strategies by race sleectiong, personality selection, acre distribution, etc etc.

    In short, you don't want to play utopia. You want to play some other game.

    Go play that.
    I somewhat disagree. There are relationships already established in the game, and reputations, and unfortunately that can give T=(0+x).
    Last edited by Panthira; 13-08-2017 at 20:47.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panthira View Post
    I somewhat disagree. There are relationships already established in the game, and reputations, and unfortunately that can give T=(0+x).
    t = 0 is time zero. AKA start. So unless you are postulating some sort of quantum universe, t=0 at the start.
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    t = 0 is time zero. AKA start. So unless you are postulating some sort of quantum universe, t=0 at the start.
    She's saying due to OOG friendship/allies/enemies that even at freeze not everything is equal. Like Divinity at T=0 doesn't have to worry about fighting Emeriti. Or BC is known as deal breakers so they get harsher treatment etc.
    "The Utopian voice of reason" ~Ben (And he's an official moderator)

  12. #372
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    I understand her point BoH, but her logical expression is wrong.

    Equal footing is not always equal footing. It depends on what sense you mean it.

    Everyone starts with 400 acres yadda yadda


    That is equal footing.

    The factors she mentions are things that relate to skill, mistakes, etc. Those are factors much like Bolt being a stronger athelete, Einstein having superior reason, etc etc etc.

    The basic starting tools we all have are the same and indeed it is the first week or two which separates the more skilled from the less skilled in an obvious way but it is generally OOP which really first separates them though few of the "war" KD's understand well enough to realize it.
    "having fun warring when you have whoring and number 1 as a goal is totally pointless..." - Korp
    "while I heart shiester when we both play serious and are in the same kingdom, I hate shiester on the forums and pretty much disagree with everything he says. Even he knows this." - Flogger asking me out on a date

    The devs have made a decision to kill competitive utopia and have thereby killed my interest with it.

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodwitch View Post
    so ask yourself why Divinity and BB didn't support actioning, or better yet ask them. You would think that the second place kingdom would have the most to gain from a GB.
    Also, this was brought up in a different thread already, Bart ,coss and divinity offered to raze off the acres gained from policing. The deal crumbled because Astron from BB refused to also raze their acres off. Correct me if I got this wrong please.
    You're wrong. But I'm not matija so im not quite up for sharing WA logs. If it was really as straight forward and foul as me refusing to raze off "just because i can", you bet you would be hearing a lot more *****ing from the actual parties involved rather than the likes of steel or randoms who have no stake in this and know only the half truths.

    I'll entertain this claim though, a tldr (not literal word for word), up to you to believe what i say.

    *bart forms a group to police CR and invited emeriti/CD/sleepy/bb/divinity/(and probably some others as well which i do not recognise)

    astron: bart gonna be huge if we hit CR and he declares and farm CR, what you gonna do about that
    coss/bart/panda: we'll have every one raze off the land later
    mod/astron: i think we gonna stay out and raze off / return acres to panda in the nxt 24hrs if panda is ready to take it
    coss/bart: nooooo police CR now, raze off later
    coss/binar(?): what BB/div decides to do with acres is between themselves if they wanna fight for crown
    panda: u can keep those acres i just want CR policed and matija to CF me
    divinity: noooo, raze now, police later
    coss/bart: but dont give button, hit behind meter so bart can declare and CR doesnt declare you instead

    *after bart farmed CR*
    coss/bart: BB should raze off acres
    astron: bart is huge, im not razing if bart doesnt raze first. i just policed matija, you think im gonna trust them and put myself in such a position to get screwed over?
    coss: bb got land first, so BB should raze first (lol??????)
    persian: bart should raze or we gb
    bart: i gonna stick to my deals, i got non compete with only div. if div beats BB i'll raze, or else i'll cruise to a crown with these free acres if div loses since i dont have a non-compete with BB
    coss: ok so deal falls apart because BB refuse to raze

    so there you have it. and considerations are not as simple as "do this now" or "do that now" when div has CR on their ass and I got bart/matija on mine. persian and i went back and fourth for 2 freaking weeks on possible ways to war (razing land / reinstating back to pre-policing / clauses) but with a council system its never easy to settle on a unanimous decision especially with a unstable 3rd player in fray.
    Last edited by astron; 14-08-2017 at 04:05.
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  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheister View Post
    Once again. They are all equal at t=0. Then everyone starts competeing and every age, the same kingdoms end up on top. It is not a question of who has the most talented, skilled players.

    You propose gimping the most talented and skilled players so that your nublet war KD's can war on "equal footing" which as you can see from Korp's posts, is ambiguous at best. He is interpreting it that everyone has to be equal skill whereas you are positing a fantasy world where everyone is constantly at exactly the same point at any given time "t" throughout the age and we can rack up war after war always starting with the same resources etc.

    The game is not about individual engagements. The game is about managing resources over the entire arc of time from t=0 until t=ending tick. Your desire to have constant resets so that your nubness can meet a given kingdom at a specific equivalent set of resources ignores the desires of kingdoms to pursue different strategies by race sleectiong, personality selection, acre distribution, etc etc.

    In short, you don't want to play utopia. You want to play some other game.

    Go play that.
    Once again. My suggestion wasn't gimping or handicapping any player. In fact, I think it actually highlights the skill of the player, not detract from it. Its simply expanding what you determined as equal footing. If equal footing is four hundred acres and starting resources, then I'm just expanding on that by including composition and race/personality combos. The logistics would be a nightmare, but with three days freeze and some number crunching, but it could be done.

    Your argument appears to be that selecting race and personality combination and composition are somehow a talent or a skill and I think that is where we disagree. Given a role, there is always a superior choice in race and personality. I'm just giving all those skilled and talented player the same superior choice in order to see whose the most talented. That would be a true competition.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by astron View Post
    You're wrong. But I'm not matija so im not quite up for sharing WA logs. If it was really as straight forward and foul as me refusing to raze off "just because i can", you bet you would be hearing a lot more *****ing from the actual parties involved rather than the likes of steel or randoms who have no stake in this and know only the half truths.

    I'll entertain this claim though, a tldr (not literal word for word), up to you to believe what i say.

    *bart forms a group to police CR and invited emeriti/CD/sleepy/bb/divinity/(and probably some others as well which i do not recognise)

    astron: bart gonna be huge if we hit CR and he declares and farm CR, what you gonna do about that
    coss/bart/panda: we'll have every one raze off the land later
    mod/astron: i think we gonna stay out and raze off / return acres to panda in the nxt 24hrs if panda is ready to take it
    coss/bart: nooooo police CR now, raze off later
    coss/binar(?): what BB/div decides to do with acres is between themselves if they wanna fight for crown
    panda: u can keep those acres i just want CR policed and matija to CF me
    divinity: noooo, raze now, police later
    coss/bart: but dont give button, hit behind meter so bart can declare and CR doesnt declare you instead

    *after bart farmed CR*
    coss/bart: BB should raze off acres
    astron: bart is huge, im not razing if bart doesnt raze first. i just policed matija, you think im gonna trust them and put myself in such a position to get screwed over?
    coss: bb got land first, so BB should raze first (lol??????)
    persian: bart should raze or we gb
    bart: i gonna stick to my deals, i got non compete with only div. if div beats BB i'll raze, or else i'll cruise to a crown with these free acres if div loses since i dont have a non-compete with BB
    coss: ok so deal falls apart because BB refuse to raze

    so there you have it. and considerations are not as simple as "do this now" or "do that now" when div has CR on their ass and I got bart/matija on mine. persian and i went back and fourth for 2 freaking weeks on possible ways to war (razing land / reinstating back to pre-policing / clauses) but with a council system its never easy to settle on a unanimous decision especially with a unstable 3rd player in fray.
    the bits I posted were just in response to Scheister saying you didn't play in BB last age. After the logs he pretty much said you are a member of BB as much as matija or bart or something. So I apologize for dragging you into this, you were apparently in no position to even broker deals.
    Maybe some actual council member had a dream that sparta would be deleted or somehow disappear and decided not to try for first firmly believing first would come without getting their hands dirty or something...or maybe they just didn't want first that much.

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