Congratulations to the age 72 winners!

[Sheister]

I do think it's better to action the offending party right away as opposed to doing it later on as that would greatly change game dynamics

In the abstract I agree Proteus. However, given the specific offenders what may have happened?

1: Delete all acres in 2:2 and 1:19 = massive removal of acres from the top tier effecting a de facto chart shape.

2: Inform them of EoA removal from list = Bart intentionally farms out all acres to become a "king maker".

3: Other crappy things the offenders can think of. They are pretty creative, you have to give them that.


I dunno that the handling was wrong. Was it ideal? Maybe not, but I can't condemn it as wrong.

[fivefinger]

In the abstract I agree Proteus. However, given the specific offenders what may have happened?

1: Delete all acres in 2:2 and 1:19 = massive removal of acres from the top tier effecting a de facto chart shape.

2: Inform them of EoA removal from list = Bart intentionally farms out all acres to become a "king maker".

3: Other crappy things the offenders can think of. They are pretty creative, you have to give them that.


I dunno that the handling was wrong. Was it ideal? Maybe not, but I can't condemn it as wrong.

This is visionary. I endorse. You should be chairman of ethics committee. Your analysis is crisp.

[StratOcastle]

Dwarf effect.

He fixes the cable?

[Aranfein]

cRs fluffy has never had war history removed like you say, we had 3 dutch players deleted for logging in on same connection, unknown to leadership a few ages ago, it was dealt with by support, as it was rl friends playing together, not multi, thats as far as fluffy has ever been punished while Ive been there, but no fluffy never had any wars or history removed.

[Sheister]

@BB being happy ... there is nothing to be happy about. This age charts should not even show up in archives when it comes to land or nw crowns.

I don't see a lot of happy BB folks coss. A few of us are commenting. I don't see happy.

[Vasp]

I don't see a lot of happy BB folks coss. A few of us are commenting. I don't see happy.

How could anyone in BB be happy? they came in second place, bested by the mighty bart and cia.

[Vasp]

Vasp, me and bart are in a good relation, but I don;t agree with Sparta's position now. You guys for sure didn't deserve to win, same as BB or Divinity or CR or even my KD(Sleepy). These guys that ended on 2 are the ones that deserved the win.

@BB being happy ... there is nothing to be happy about. This age charts should not even show up in archives when it comes to land or nw crowns.

I thought crown was given to the kingdom with more land and nw and not to the kingdom you think deserves it or not. I MIGHT have to check the guide again, rules keep changing so quickly one never knows!!! XDDD

[Paradise]

Sheister, #2 and #3 make sense. Good point you have there.

I would rather see #1 happen, or no "extra stuff" is done at all after eoa. Then this rule set will be announced next age so everyone is aware.

Creating rule out of nowhere to add-on/patch/fix your previous action just make others doubt your future actions .

[Sheister]

Creating rule out of nowhere to add-on/patch/fix your previous action just make others doubt your future actions .

This is a common criticism for penalty systems. Even in official criminal justice systems there are sometimes punishments handed out that seem arbitrary to the general public. Nevertheless we trust judges (the dev's in this case) to do their best. They are human and flawed and prone to errors in all sorts of ways, but we place our trust in their good intentions even when things may not seem the best.

I recall a case in the regulation of lawyers in my state. There is an attorney I know who mishandled $500 bucks of a client's funds (deposited them in the wrong account) discovered the error, corrected it and made sure the client got their money back. He lost his license. I know another attorney who filed false affidavits in over 10,000 foreclosure cases on which those 10,000 homes were lost, assuming an average home price of $200k that is over $2B in damage to the people of my state. That attorney got a 90 day suspension and is still practicing law.

It can be hard to reconcile things like that. I won't pretend that I can or try to. All I can say is that people do their best and try to make things work and be fair. The devs are doing a lot of things that I don't like. The threads these last few weeks are filled to the brim of my pet peeves. They are doing what they think is in the best interest of game expansion. I understand and respect that. The process for making that happen will be imperfect. It will be full of correct decisions and mistakes and reversals. All we can do is trust that they mean the best for the game, as it is what they have invested in, thus their financial interest is to do what is best for the game.

I will ask this question of the people who think they just want to put their e-buddies in the crown. Lets say they only paid $25,000 for the entire game. Can you tell me which of your e-buddies you would jeopardize a $25,000 investment for? Does that make any sense?

It doesn't does it?

[Vasp]

This is a common criticism for penalty systems. Even in official criminal justice systems there are sometimes punishments handed out that seem arbitrary to the general public. Nevertheless we trust judges (the dev's in this case) to do their best. They are human and flawed and prone to errors in all sorts of ways, but we place our trust in their good intentions even when things may not seem the best.

I recall a case in the regulation of lawyers in my state. There is an attorney I know who mishandled $500 bucks of a client's funds (deposited them in the wrong account) discovered the error, corrected it and made sure the client got their money back. He lost his license. I know another attorney who filed false affidavits in over 10,000 foreclosure cases on which those 10,000 homes were lost, assuming an average home price of $200k that is over $2B in damage to the people of my state. That attorney got a 90 day suspension and is still practicing law.

It can be hard to reconcile things like that. I won't pretend that I can or try to. All I can say is that people do their best and try to make things work and be fair. The devs are doing a lot of things that I don't like. The threads these last few weeks are filled to the brim of my pet peeves. They are doing what they think is in the best interest of game expansion. I understand and respect that. The process for making that happen will be imperfect. It will be full of correct decisions and mistakes and reversals. All we can do is trust that they mean the best for the game, as it is what they have invested in, thus their financial interest is to do what is best for the game.

I will ask this question of the people who think they just want to put their e-buddies in the crown. Lets say they only paid $25,000 for the entire game. Can you tell me which of your e-buddies you would jeopardize a $25,000 investment for? Does that make any sense?

It doesn't does it?

Dont want to sound too much of a lawyer but the implementation of new punishments cant be retroactively applied to previously commited actions. Allow me to explain with a simple example. Say that I killed someone and I got punished for 25 years and then a new law is approved that punishes murders for 30 years.... the justice simple cant go back and punish me for 30. Thats a basic justice principal of non-retroactivity of criminal punishment. There is only one exception and that is if they new law benefits the criminal.

Going back to this case, lets assume that bart cheated (which I disagree but lets assume it)... the guide or the rulebook doenst say u get deleted from the rankings. Thats a new punishment that is trying to retroactively punish an offense. It isnt just in any justice system.

But anywayzzzzz, at the end of the day, Bart won and the qqing admins cant stop that. GG till next age

[Pillz]

So the admins waited almost 1 month to announce a rule change, immediately before EoA, that allowed them to delete a player & his kingdom from the charts after achieving #1 Land/NW, after already actioning them for their rule violation.

And it happens that all 4 admins have bad blood with the monarch in question and the KD that ended up being gifted the Crown by this rule change is a former home to 1 of the owners.

And to defend their half-assed move, this is BB's owner-friends response to justify the last second decision to delete Spartans from the charts and replace them with BB for #1:

<DavidC> I do believe the Rules state that prior notification is not necessary

What a pathetic joke.

[Vasp]

This is a common criticism for penalty systems. Even in official criminal justice systems there are sometimes punishments handed out that seem arbitrary to the general public. Nevertheless we trust judges (the dev's in this case) to do their best. They are human and flawed and prone to errors in all sorts of ways, but we place our trust in their good intentions even when things may not seem the best.

I recall a case in the regulation of lawyers in my state. There is an attorney I know who mishandled $500 bucks of a client's funds (deposited them in the wrong account) discovered the error, corrected it and made sure the client got their money back. He lost his license. I know another attorney who filed false affidavits in over 10,000 foreclosure cases on which those 10,000 homes were lost, assuming an average home price of $200k that is over $2B in damage to the people of my state. That attorney got a 90 day suspension and is still practicing law.

It can be hard to reconcile things like that. I won't pretend that I can or try to. All I can say is that people do their best and try to make things work and be fair. The devs are doing a lot of things that I don't like. The threads these last few weeks are filled to the brim of my pet peeves. They are doing what they think is in the best interest of game expansion. I understand and respect that. The process for making that happen will be imperfect. It will be full of correct decisions and mistakes and reversals. All we can do is trust that they mean the best for the game, as it is what they have invested in, thus their financial interest is to do what is best for the game.

I will ask this question of the people who think they just want to put their e-buddies in the crown. Lets say they only paid $25,000 for the entire game. Can you tell me which of your e-buddies you would jeopardize a $25,000 investment for? Does that make any sense?

It doesn't does it?

oh... and 25000usd is nothing. thats like my budget for drinking and parties this year. meh...

[protector]

Because they were influenced into making that decision. They don't know what they are doing. Or they think it's more acceptable to waste people's time and money, and not just on the guilty parties. Who they seem to feel should be punished till the end of time.

Perhaps they just don't want to encourage cheating and even moreso not make it rewarding to cheat?

[Phucaigh]

I guess the worse thing about Sparta losing out for their actions, is the pride they had in winning, before the fall.

Oh what a fall.

Congrats to all the winners, and the kds and provinces that have done well.

[Poopsie]

And the winner is.......the one manipulated this game!!!