Reduced Leet Conversion Hitting INTO Prosperous

[Swagger]

It's honestly the most likely scenario and I agree with him. It's either that or they expected us to cross reference a change to fort in age ?? and have us make the correct assumption about whether it's changed or not.

[Korp]

It's honestly the most likely scenario and I agree with him. It's either that or they expected us to cross reference a change to fort in age ?? and have us make the correct assumption about whether it's changed or not.

I guess you also need to have confirmed each age that fireballs kills peasants.

[MasterShake2129]

I guess you also need to have confirmed each age that fireballs kills peasants.

That's a horrible comparison.

Fireball was not removed with a new spell to take its place, with a range of changes posted for it, while other changes not posted for it.

This would be more similar to Ambush is being replaced by Trap. Trap will be similar to Ambush but with the defending armies elites fighting at their higher stat (IE. 8 for a fae, 11 for Ud).

THEN after the age starts you find out that elites fighting with an offensive stat as their highest is not subject to the 80% calculation as that is just based on 80% * dspec value * defensive elite stat value.

[Korp]

That's a horrible comparison.

Fireball was not removed with a new spell to take its place, with a range of changes posted for it, while other changes not posted for it.

This would be more similar to Ambush is being replaced by Trap. Trap will be similar to Ambush but with the defending armies elites fighting at their higher stat (IE. 8 for a fae, 11 for Ud).

THEN after the age starts you find out that elites fighting with an offensive stat as their highest is not subject to the 80% calculation as that is just based on 80% * dspec value * defensive elite stat value.

Okey, let me rephrase. if Fireball was changed and added with several other feautures assume that it did not kill peasants as well? Especially since the phrasing was something like "ITs exactly as fireball but with X and Y Change"

Point was that you really shouldnt need to mention every single detailed. If it stated that it works like fort but with these changes then its safe to assume that it has the previous buffs debuffs left.

[Zombies are people too]

I guess you also need to have confirmed each age that fireballs kills peasants.

I usually don't condone snide remarks, but man this made me giggle rofl

-DM <3

[Pillz]

I love that Steel bases his whole argumentation around "I know you forgot!" Thats some next level mindreading he has going on there.

There are many things that don't add up. The only three possibilities are they forgot, they were lying about their confidence in Prosp and buffed it/kept the conversion penalty to buff it, or they were quiet about the whole thing because their friends aren't running UDs and they didn't want competitors to avoid uds because of the conversions penalty (leaving them at a potential disadvantage).

I've opted to go with 'they forgot' because its the least scandalous. Though I think option #2 is most likely. And #3 is probably the truth but lets save the admins biases and cheating for EoA

[MasterShake2129]

Okey, let me rephrase. if Fireball was changed and added with several other feautures assume that it did not kill peasants as well? Especially since the phrasing was something like "ITs exactly as fireball but with X and Y Change"

Point was that you really shouldnt need to mention every single detailed. If it stated that it works like fort but with these changes then its safe to assume that it has the previous buffs debuffs left.

except that Ops are now being considered attacks to be nerfed at 20% going out. I think it was a pretty safe assumption of the server to think that conversions would NOT be nerfed hitting INTO prosp. If we can look at the term attack as being an op. I think we should all agree that the entire premise was to remove the protection of sitting in fort, so to leave that one aspect that 1/3 of the server plays is extremely poor. That is not a small change, and for the record they said identical to not exact.

for the same formatting
Fire Ball removed - A new attack called Pyroblast will replace it. Pyrobloast will be almost identital to fireball. The main difference will be pyroblast will be harder to cast, pyroblast will "burn" peasants for a medium duration, and rune cost will be increased"

There is a better version of the Fireball scenario, would you say that Pyroblast will or will not do instant peasant damage, or ONLY duration as it does not make mention of the instant damage being removed.

[Swagger]

Why are you arguing against better documentation Korp?

I don't mind that it wasn't changed, I just mind how poorly it was documented. This is a math based game, don't just say "same same but different," just say what the new thing is.

[Aha]

same same, but different, but still same. hehehehehe

[Ethan]

Haven't conversions come and gone, and come again, with fort? Having never played UD, I'd never tried to check the details myself... but I'm surprised to hear the conversion penalty was larger than the gains penalty. I'd have expected that to come up before sometime in my kingdom, but this is the first I've ever heard of any of this.

@Pillz - you forgot a possibility: vines math. I'd rank it as option 1.3 - while thinking *.2 = -20% would be pretty impressively dumb, the initial mistake might still be honest. I've done plenty stupider myself. (Anyone else ever get 2 million bucks going the wrong way on a ledger entry?) I'd rank this option as worse than simple forgetfulness because it both requires a bit more fail ('tis really easy to forget things) and makes the follow up posting more disingenuous.


Even though it is only helping me this age, I'm going to add to the "this is a fairly big deal, and was not communicated clearly enough" camp. I'm also flagging it as a very small nail on my trust too - I'm not sure I really like the direction of the game these days. I keep being excited to see more complete and clear communication... and then something trips it up like this, and I'm left with a funny stink hanging around. At least the Mehul style "I tell you ____" for the game mechanics didn't have the pretense of being helpful - you could trust him still. Trust him to be a mysterious jerk about it, but you knew what you'd get.

The extra info about what's doing can at least turn my opinion around a lot faster - only takes one really sharp good idea to move from "not sure they get it" to "takes big risks for big rewards". Doesn't even actually have to pan out lol.


PS - linking this to my kingdom chat... we've got UD, and I'm betting they don't know how harsh this actually is.

[TommyB]

I think it was a pretty safe assumption of the server to think that conversions would NOT be nerfed hitting INTO prosp.

But why assume when you could have asked for clarification in the thread to discuss the proposed changes?

[Swagger]

But why assume when you could have asked for clarification in the thread to discuss the proposed changes?

That's kind of the point. The fact that nobody questioned it is because the majority of people didn't know there were two separate formula impacting conversions. I'll admit I didn't know, and I've seen posts from people in notable kds calling this a bug, implying they didn't know either.

I'd be curious to know how many kds went into their kd setup discussion with 100% confidence that undead would get 1/5 conversion hitting into prosperous. Id be willing to wager the number is very small or zero.

[Korp]

except that Ops are now being considered attacks to be nerfed at 20% going out. I think it was a pretty safe assumption of the server to think that conversions would NOT be nerfed hitting INTO prosp. If we can look at the term attack as being an op. I think we should all agree that the entire premise was to remove the protection of sitting in fort, so to leave that one aspect that 1/3 of the server plays is extremely poor. That is not a small change, and for the record they said identical to not exact.

for the same formatting
Fire Ball removed - A new attack called Pyroblast will replace it. Pyrobloast will be almost identital to fireball. The main difference will be pyroblast will be harder to cast, pyroblast will "burn" peasants for a medium duration, and rune cost will be increased"

There is a better version of the Fireball scenario, would you say that Pyroblast will or will not do instant peasant damage, or ONLY duration as it does not make mention of the instant damage being removed.

The justifying for ops is sounded like trying to save face that i can agree upon. :)

Conversion didnt get nerfed cause conversions didnt get changed. You are still working with your faulty assumption.

Pyroblast would kill X peasants instantly and Y peasants under a duration period would be my assumption.

Why are you arguing against better documentation Korp?

I don't mind that it wasn't changed, I just mind how poorly it was documented. This is a math based game, don't just say "same same but different," just say what the new thing is.

Im arguing against dumbing down the game, you want all the information with no effort.

That's kind of the point. The fact that nobody questioned it is because the majority of people didn't know there were two separate formula impacting conversions. I'll admit I didn't know, and I've seen posts from people in notable kds calling this a bug, implying they didn't know either.

I'd be curious to know how many kds went into their kd setup discussion with 100% confidence that undead would get 1/5 conversion hitting into prosperous. Id be willing to wager the number is very small or zero.

Its not the games fault that you dont do your homework properly.

[Swagger]

It's not dumbing the game down to omit information on new features. I'm not asking for the formula, just a verbal indication like "reduces elite conversion for undead," would suffice.

I shouldn't have to look through changes made several ages ago to understand what a brand new feature does. This game is enough of a chore already, we shouldn't have to cross reference and read between the lines of past changes.

[Swagger]

Also, using your homework analogy, if the vast majority of the students fail the test, it becomes a failure of the teachers ability to teach.