Reduced Leet Conversion Hitting INTO Prosperous

[Selephant]

Im trying to understand the apologist argument here, but its simply ludicrous.

You are saying we should not have assumed that elite conversion reduction would remain, but this would be predicated on knowledge of the conversions formula, which is not publicly available. So the suggestion is the wider playerbase should have known and made their race choices according to knowledge of a formula which is not widely available, so that they would know conversions is not related to "attack" (not even going to touch that one lol) gains and thus conversion gains into fort/prosp are unchanged"?

Amidst all of this devs are talking about bringing in new players with gimmicks like referral bonuses? How does that work exactly? You cant have it both ways. You can't cultivate an environment where only the "elite" with access to information regarding obfuscated game mechanics are able to make successful choices while at the same time trying to bring in new players.

[RattleHead]

...

Amidst all of this devs are talking about bringing in new players with gimmicks like referral bonuses? How does that work exactly? You cant have it both ways. You can't cultivate an environment where only the "elite" with access to information regarding obfuscated game mechanics are able to make successful choices while at the same time trying to bring in new players.

dingdingdingdingdingdingding

[MeIkor]

[...]
I do also believe that it's been documented fairly well that elite conversions is not tied to the gains formula even though it may utilize some of the same factors in determining the result.
[...]
We are human and will make mistakes from time to time;
[...]
On another side note, I would like to provide better methods of communicating age changes and am actively working on this; reading the massive wall of text which is the age change list is cumbersome and without a doubt needs improvement. Suggestions are welcome!

I am really the last one criticising anybody for his or her mistakes, but mistakes should be cleared.
It is really strange that you dont just write down into the "Age 73 Final Changes" thread what this new Prosperous Stance is actually doing.
Elite conversion is not mentioned in this Final Changes threat, I dont see it in the guide and it is not mentioned in the wiki. Elite conversions "utilize some of the same factors" as the gains formula and Elite conversions happen when you do a land attack. So how should players know, that these formulas are not connected? I would not even know where to look this up without asking or looking through sub-forums.
Do you really want players to work themselfs though the forum (in my case the bug section) to understand what is happening within the game?

[Aha]

Also, using your homework analogy, if the vast majority of the students fail the test, it becomes a failure of the teachers ability to teach.

Or the class contains 51% of Korps. HEHEHEHEHE

[LuckySports]

Fortified Stance Removed - A new stance called "Prosperous" will replace it. Prosperous stance will be almost identical to Fortified. The main difference will be: Attacks into Prosperous will have no gains penalty; Attacks while your Kingdom is Prosperous will have reduced gains of -20% (instead of -50%) and scientists will gain experience during Prosperous.


You will notice the wording here says it will be almost identical to fortified. This would suggest that the only things that changed, are the items that they note, which is then listed. There shouldn't be a surprise here.

[Korp]

Im trying to understand the apologist argument here, but its simply ludicrous.

You are saying we should not have assumed that elite conversion reduction would remain, but this would be predicated on knowledge of the conversions formula, which is not publicly available. So the suggestion is the wider playerbase should have known and made their race choices according to knowledge of a formula which is not widely available, so that they would know conversions is not related to "attack" (not even going to touch that one lol) gains and thus conversion gains into fort/prosp are unchanged"?

Amidst all of this devs are talking about bringing in new players with gimmicks like referral bonuses? How does that work exactly? You cant have it both ways. You can't cultivate an environment where only the "elite" with access to information regarding obfuscated game mechanics are able to make successful choices while at the same time trying to bring in new players.

Isnt it more ludicrous that you simple assume to know the answer without actually trying to learn the answer? And you can drop the tinfoilhat there is no elite group of people. There is just people that are more willing to dedicate time to learn the mechanics than others. You have several methods of getting the information as well, you can ask in the strategy forum, you can ask an admin to clarify how will it work. But that doesnt seem to be the case, everyone just assumes "Oh i guess that should work like this but I dont really have a clue".


Utopia used to be a game that people enjoyed figuring **** out now people just seem to want everything for handed to them.

[Swagger]

Guess they should remove elite off/def in age changes. Just say they are similar to last age but the numbers are different.

[Korp]

Guess they should remove elite off/def in age changes. Just say they are similar to last age but the numbers are different.

Guess they should mentioned fireballs kills peasants in each final changes, fertile lands produce extra bushes, Minor protection increases your defense! ..

The numbers werent different, if was stated that dwarf elites will have basically the same as last age but they will have increased nw. Would you assume that something would have changed with their def off values?

[Swagger]

I honestly don't care enough to keep arguing about this. I disagree with you that making a more convoluted game makes the game better.

You're making the assumption that everyone knew there were two formula effecting conversion gains. Yes, the information was available if you went digging for it, but it should also have been mentioned in the age changes.

[Crystopher]

I honestly don't care enough to keep arguing about this. I disagree with you that making a more convoluted game makes the game better.

You're making the assumption that everyone knew there were two formula effecting conversion gains. Yes, the information was available if you went digging for it, but it should also have been mentioned in the age changes.

This game has historically been all about figuring out the formulas for everything, which should then be added to the wiki (something that's also managed by the players). Discovery is a big part of Utopia and I don't think that should be taken away. If the information about UD conversion was discovered and is already known, then you can't blame the devs for forgetting about it OR for being a newcomer to the game and not being supplied that information. That falls on the playerbase for not teaching those newcomers the underlying mechanics and for not updating our information hub.

The only thing that should be mentioned in the age changes (and has historically been mentioned) are the actual things that are changing. Based on your logic, each age we should give a rundown on every single mechanic in the game, such as the hybrid gains system and the science system.

Bottom line: Fortified was changed to Prosperous and the only things that changed with it were mentioned. The fact that you forgot or didn't know is your own fault, not that of the devs.

[Korp]

I honestly don't care enough to keep arguing about this. I disagree with you that making a more convoluted game makes the game better.

You're making the assumption that everyone knew there were two formula effecting conversion gains. Yes, the information was available if you went digging for it, but it should also have been mentioned in the age changes.

Thats why the game is down on its knees now but was in its prime when nothing was as easily accessible as it was now? ...


No, I am making the assumption that people that dont know or isnt sure would ask for clarification or go look for an answer rather than assume that they have the right answer already.

[Swagger]

This is just going in circles now as I've already answered the flaw in your last sentence. You can't ask a question about a problem you don't know exists.

@Crystopher I've not asked for formulas, I've asked for clarification on age change that there IS a formula. The rest of your comment has been discussed elsewhere in this thread.

[Swagger]

What age was the conversion formula hitting into fort implemented? Can't find it

[Crystopher]

What age was the conversion formula hitting into fort implemented? Can't find it

Currently searching the forum, but it appears to have been around 2014. Here's a link to a thread discussing it; see Bishop's response from that same thread below:

Fort to Fort, or eowcf to eowcf hits to pump elites is back again I see. :o

That was nerfed afaik, you'll gain less elites.

Undead promotions from all hits (Suggestions forum)

[Swagger]

So a post by bishop in a thread in the suggestions forum three years ago is the only documentation of it? I guess you're right, it was properly documented and the only reason nobody asked about 20% conversion hitting into prosperous was because everybody already knew it! I stand corrected.