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Thread: BB vs Sleepy

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticdemon View Post
    only cause im drinking...

    wait i thnk i might be drunk
    volunteer to sit me @astron?
    anything for you brother. but im getting drunk with nesta tonight.....
    The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must

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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija View Post
    Yeah well, that's just like your opinion dude.
    think its most of our opinions, and I'm sure its been said before....
    The original pirate nub

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija View Post
    Yeah well, that's just like your opinion dude.
    think its most of our opinions, and I'm sure its been said before....
    The original pirate nub

  4. #109
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    Witty comeback!
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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    few question nesta....
    1.why would they'd need to raze. With easier op and better science (even if not x4-5) shouldnt they of been able to tornado your provs pre wave to remove things like wt/gs?
    --this seems like an easy use of runes/mana that sage could easily leverage over your avain/undead
    2. Did they really hit you trying to chain and using -hours instead of just eating worse attack times and mixing in max gains?
    ---If they did this, this litteraly alone could of cost them the war...i mean i've seen it tried, its always better to just outlast the avains and be outchained a bit early
    3. What advantage would TD have done if their BE was as bad as u said....wouldnt the lack of build space and terrible BE just meant that they'd of had even worse luck using things like rax?
    I think Sleepy played 0 towers and had most of their runes LSed? With humans extra rune cost and lower spell successrate might be difficult.
    Aside that, if you can multitap anyway, doing 1-2 raze for 20% land each isn't that costly

  6. #111
    Postaholic 13nesta13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persain View Post
    few question nesta....
    1.why would they'd need to raze. With easier op and better science (even if not x4-5) shouldnt they of been able to tornado your provs pre wave to remove things like wt/gs?
    --this seems like an easy use of runes/mana that sage could easily leverage over your avain/undead
    2. Did they really hit you trying to chain and using -hours instead of just eating worse attack times and mixing in max gains?
    ---If they did this, this litteraly alone could of cost them the war...i mean i've seen it tried, its always better to just outlast the avains and be outchained a bit early
    3. What advantage would TD have done if their BE was as bad as u said....wouldnt the lack of build space and terrible BE just meant that they'd of had even worse luck using things like rax?
    1. Again, they dont have such a huge science lead over us. They had like 250, and we had like 185 on avians. 2% more BE, 4% more pop, 1.5% more ME, <10% more magic/crime sci. Not insurmountable, especially given human's race penalty on -WPA and +rune cost.
    Boom's SOS (4days old):
    Income: 0% Tools: 29.3% Housing: 24.6% Prod: 143% Military: 22% Thief: 145.9% Magic: 141.7%
    Mine (didn't change much except I removed novice scientists to income now):
    Income: 4.6% Tools: 27.5% Housing: 20.3% Prod: 55.9% Military: 20.5% Thief: 134.2% Magic: 133.9%

    Tornado wasn't really an option because we LS'ed all runes and we ourselves were pretty active rune users, so stock in KD was very low. Avians with MP GP M.Shield FL NB BL FANA. They stocked a lot of runes and went 0% towers, which was a surprise they didn't utilise the 140% production science better. They did something like this from what I can retrieve from bot:
    Homes: 0% Farms: 5% Mills: 0% Banks: 0% TG: 14% Arms: 0% TB: -421k
    Racks: 20% Forts: 0% GS: 17.9% Hosps: 19.8% Guilds: 7% Twers: 0% Hit: Sev
    TD: 0% WT: 0% Labs: 0% Univ: 0% Stbles: 15.3% Dung: 1% Exploring: 0
    Couple that with us doing Sabo Wiz before every chain, the chained with boosted WPA didnt really have much mana to spare, whatever he had was literally LLing for his dear life. And we did 2 chains on most chains b2b (chaining him, he gets home, sends out, we drop him further right away with our smalls), meaning for almost a good 24h they had to use mana for LL only.
    This, and us killing 2 faeries to 2500a meant their only self-rune production were killed.
    Raze wasnt that great for them too if they were to do it on avian. We were more like 2x-ing (sometimes 3 if we got to plan real well with kills and stuff, and I thought we did that decent) each other at equal size start of fight. Most their extra pop went to tpa so MPA was similar (they went 6 vs our 4 like I said). Only on undead they could kinda do it and still have enough off to get decent incoming. We on the other hand had the freedom of choice that if a target left a defense convenient for us to throw a spare raze and we can still get decent incoming we would do it and leave our rogues to do other things like AW for LL farm, otherwise when chaining a tricky target where nobody could get decent incoming if he had to do 1 raze, we would turn to our rogues doing GA.

    2. They only minus h for opening wave. Apologies if I didnt make that clear. Nothing wrong with that imo, I would have done exactly the same thing if I were giving button to 10 avian 10 undeads.
    As for sustenance, why would you think avians are poorer than humans? Especially when we have clerics, and sages on CF drop with 120% BE hosp. Avians racial and personality advantages were BE and build independent (-25% attack time, fana BL which gives like 15% extra OME at literally no penalty if timed well to expire before their turn to wave which was what we did. and -35% losses for cleric). Humans however were over-reliant on builds. They have literally no bonus from race that's useful for war and instead, a bunch of penalties. Having to hit into and be hit with emerald both ways I dont see how humans out-last avians.

    3. See (1) for their sample build. At 70% BE plus diminishing returns I would have gone a bit more rainbow, with TDs in. Could also have been more careful with the TPA sent management for more sustain. At 70% BE 10% TD would have given 25.2% less losses and 18.9% bonus TPA. Which probably leads to something like 10-15% more success rates (10-15% less fails), and in total like 32-35% less losses? Keep in mind these numbers stack over time. The more you succeed and lose less thieves, the lesser you fail in future ops and lose less. I wouldnt call that insignificant.
    Last edited by 13nesta13; 02-10-2017 at 10:26.
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  7. #112
    Sir Postalot Lestat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astron View Post
    bounce and sagebro2.... stop feeding the trolls. ...
    No backseat Trollerating pls

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija View Post
    Yeah well, that's just like your opinion dude.
    *Man

  9. #114
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    "Man" was the natural flow of what I wrote, corrected it to "dude" because that's what he kept saying. Then I looked it up and it actually was "man" :D
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  10. #115
    Post Fiend Poopsie's Avatar
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    excuses...excuses/// excuses....Its a FW

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija View Post
    "Man" was the natural flow of what I wrote, corrected it to "dude" because that's what he kept saying. Then I looked it up and it actually was "man" :D
    He's The Dude :D

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta View Post
    Aha. "quit" --> mole --> delete provs on a BB competitor --> "quit" --> back to BB. I feel bad for ever trusting you and defending you against my own players.
    not all play/agree to continue playing with farmers man, one may argue on how to keep his reputation still going. Bounce took the easy way out and left!

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korp View Post
    Isn't that funny your tactic was quit Sparta build a province then farm out said province to Sparta and then return to Sparta.
    damn, that was nice!

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13nesta13 View Post
    Fight summary as promised. This was a war of fine margins. The kd that made fewer mistakes won. And deservedly so.

    Pre fight up to notice expiry we were probably 40-60 on paper. Gold not an issue either sides on a kd level but province level we were pretty short on our faeries. Had to do some DS.

    If sleepy had conserved their BE at 110++ i would put us on 30-70 odds. But they didnt. That said we also messed our prep on few avians and one or 2 undeads. One undead apparently didn't even receive the memo to go 70% homes. Some avians, crucial ones as well being biggest few, overdid the peasant conserving BE sh!t that they were still stuck on 5 ppa when train date came, meaning he was going to show at fight expiry 4mpa less (though there were tickly training after). Leadership was busy getting wasted at Oktoberfest to micro and hold everyone's hands and these kind of bs happens.

    Things i felt sleepy did wrong:
    Opening first 8 hits from prosperous (fhey admitted that). Rest opening wave hits they moved to aggro. But this allowed us to declare and chain those who hit from prosperous and beat home. And chain another bunch who were still out.
    Pwrsonally if i were them i would open from bottom and semi turtle top. And play from there. If we retalled on their top then they can commit another few bigger dudes knowing there's a few chainable avians once/if we push. Fully committing when the war is this close almost never works out great.

    Second mistake was the chaining of the undeads that got ns'ed half his offense from 1.3m to 650k. Leaving him at 5k msking poor hits was better than chaining him 2nd wave. With 650k off he was able to quad and finish chains for us at 2.5k.

    Third mistake i felt was going 6 rtpa on humans then not doing tds. This meant they lost tpa fast on ns runs and the tpa couldnt sustain.

    Things working in our favour (not in sleepy's control):
    Our nw ranges made for better chains.
    Humans were fast first wave but too reliant on builds. They went something like 18-20 rax and did minus h to keep up with our avians but that couldnt last long. By 24h they were unable to match us for speed due to even lower BE and diluting rax from razes and incoming.
    Undead war hero. The gains were sweet being unaffected by emerald and helped us take their 2 faeries down.
    Sleepy had no rogues. This meant no GA and AW from them. We could run our faeries with no wt and go heavy wt on core to counter their 6 rtpa. They needed to raze to break our builds.

    In summary, we needed to play near perfect and for them to make a few mistakes and this was what happened. Credit goes to my co leaders for executing the first 2 waves while i was stuck in flight using the limited free 20mb to give orders. Aside from 2 asian dudes sleeping through their overpop i think everyone at my side did well.

    It may not look obvious to the outsider who the winner was, given that the nw was dead even. But it was fairly certain from the inside. I am indeed surprised the wd came because i thought ot might go another 12 to 24h. But they stood to lose much more if they cant turn it around. It would have required some mistakes from our end which i dont think we were in the mood to commit.

    We were 4m nw down at cf drop but we closed them to even nw in 48h. Sleepy's bigs at wd were their 3-4k's mostly except Patek which we AW'ed to make for LL with low tpa wpa and defense. On the other hand, most of our big avians were our bigs to start the fight with. And clerics too, so much more sustainable. We were able to semi turtle and send out between 600-700k MO on most of the big avians while keeping 550k def home. Their top had offense of about 900k and would leave under 300-350k if out. This means they struggled to break our bigs since they could only 1x while we could 2x their top comfortably and 2x bottom chain(who had 40-70k def).

    Still a great fight and credit to coss and sleepy. Ggwp.
    Why didnt you mention them running 0% towers and having 5.5mil runes incinerated by mighty migz & DL? That actually was the best part of the war for me

  15. #120
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    & for the records, Coss & co, dont suck. They just ran out of luck

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