The U vs tbb and ronin

[TheRealKremlin]

Well I have been monarch before, and I often set terms for war that included, no aw, no massacres, no dragons. no learn attacks on chained targets etc, etc. I did not realize that all those times I set those terms, or someone set those terms with me that I was involved in a "fake war'. As you know, wizards and scientists are the hardest things to obtain. You can gain land and retrain troops rather quickly, but it takes weeks to get back wizards and scientist. I know you know this cause your kingdom did nothing but massacre attacks and learn attacks for 4 days to hurt us the most you could. If my monarch is setting terms that will spare us the ordeal of having to sit and wait for the TM's to get their WPA back to normal then I applaud my monarch for doing it.

As far as you saying we messed up your b2b in a way more blatant fashion, I do not recall us hitting ANY kingdom for 4 days of massacre and learn attacks at ANY time I have been in this kingdom. If you wanted to get even with us, you should have done what we did. Hit us with one wave and them move on. If our one wave pissed you off to the point that you had to massacre our TM's for 4 days, imagine what we are willing to do to retaliate that. You can cry in the forums for the rest of the age, but everyone knows you deserve whats coming to you. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have, this is the most excitement I have had all age.

Hmm, we aren't accusing you of waving us for 4 days of learns? Dunno where that came from. As I said earlier you did one full wave into our hostile (which did plenty of damage...). Not really sure what you are saying here, you definitely 2v1ed us, there is no excuse. Since you said you didn't pay attention I can buy that maybe you didn't KNOW at the time what was going on, but again, then why come here and post?

As for the fake war stuff. While it doesn't have a direct bearing on our current actions I DO see terms like no aw / no massacre / ext. as against at least the spirit of the fake war rule. That said, I know it happens (and like I said we've agreed to no dragons in the past) but what is REALLY egregious is agreeing not to hit certain provinces. It's all bad but that is worse and it is what was offered to us by your monarch. I don't think people understand the REASON the fake war stuff is bad. It does NOT just affect you and if you aren't giving it your all then it negatively affects the entire competition. It's not fair to the rest of the server which IS throwing everything into their wars.

[TheRealKremlin]

Your wave into our B2B and our wave into yours are frankly quite equally blatant. Both screwed the other sides chances in their B2B. After our first wave you clearly weren't going to be able to fight ronins and after your wave int our round 2 we clearly weren't going to be able to beat spartans. The hostile being prolonged was just you guys deciding to actually hostile whereas when you waved into our conflict we cf'd you.

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I know meep plays with me but I'm going to disagree with him here. It was NOT equally blatant. We at least TRIED to jump in before anything started and a I honestly don't see how a neutral party doesn't see those hits from TBB into Ronin as SUPER wierd. Also our action was in RESPONSE to TBB's action, not out of the blue and not without justification. I totally reject the premise that we did ANYTHING wrong by waving TBB. I'm not necessarily saying I would do it again, I did NOT see Ronin acting in this way and while I think they are acting in a morally bankrupt way I still wouldn't put my kingdom through this charade if I could go back and do it differently.

[Bart of Sparta]

Perhaps people should stop seeing this game as a series of 1v1 encounters and start by viewing the game as it was meant to be played: hit anything you can mechanically get gains off so long as it profits you and you stick within the mechanics. Removal of war stance and war protections is probably the best thing that can happen to this game (though would have to be accompanidd by some other changes).

[Meep]

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I know meep plays with me but I'm going to disagree with him here. It was NOT equally blatant. We at least TRIED to jump in before anything started and a I honestly don't see how a neutral party doesn't see those hits from TBB into Ronin as SUPER wierd. Also our action was in RESPONSE to TBB's action, not out of the blue and not without justification. I totally reject the premise that we did ANYTHING wrong by waving TBB. I'm not necessarily saying I would do it again, I did NOT see Ronin acting in this way and while I think they are acting in a morally bankrupt way I still wouldn't put my kingdom through this charade if I could go back and do it differently.

I didn't mean blatant as in equally bad.

I mean blatant as in going down a one-way street of war-ruining.

Obviously theirs was into a days long hostile that they knew was happening and coordinated with spartans to do, by their own admission.

[Uncle Ed]

See, i think the big difference between your b2b with Sparta and our b2b with Ronin's is that Bart did not seem to upset with us for hitting you and "ruining your b2b". You see one wave by us might have hurt a little, but I am sure Bart would have given you a couple days to recover and proceed with your b2b. One wave by you guys hurt us, but I am sure Ronin's would have given us a couple days to recover and proceed with our b2b. 4 days of massacring our TM's and there was no way we could recover to b2b Ronins. I am sure that is what pissed them off and caused them to take the actions that they did. I know it definately pissed off our TM's and caused us to take the actions that we are. It's cute how you justify your actions with accusing us of a fake war and calling our attacks weird. It's laughable that you explain your continued massacre attacks on game mechanics when the only reasonable explanation is you guys are just being d*cks and trying to ruin our age. Once again, this is just how a plebe sees it.

Now I know you think that since I really do not know what is going on and just follow orders that I should not post here, but sometimes it is good to hear from the soldiers and not just the generals. I would love to hear from your soldiers and see what their perception of what's going on between our two kingdoms. I can just imagine the conversation you have with them:

Soldier: "It looks like TBB wants to war us coming out of protection. We are equal size, Let's go to war!!!!"
General: "Calm down young Padawan. TBB is way too good for us. There leadership is strong and their activity is off the hook. Better we find some ghetto's to war with"

A few weeks later:
Soldier: "TBB wants to war us again. We are 3mil more NW that them, let's go get em!"
General: "Not yet noob, they are still to strong for us. Let's just give them some scientist and we will deal with them later"

Last week:
Soldier: "TBB just got out of war, and we are 10mil more NW than them. They are tagged for b2b war. What should we do??"
General: "Attack!!!!!"

I cannot imagine being a soldier in your kingdom. I mean, I would have quit after 1 day of massacre attacks, but they all stuck around for 4 days. lol Real courage you boys have there.

[TheRealKremlin]

See, i think the big difference between your b2b with Sparta and our b2b with Ronin's is that Bart did not seem to upset with us for hitting you and "ruining your b2b". You see one wave by us might have hurt a little, but I am sure Bart would have given you a couple days to recover and proceed with your b2b. One wave by you guys hurt us, but I am sure Ronin's would have given us a couple days to recover and proceed with our b2b. 4 days of massacring our TM's and there was no way we could recover to b2b Ronins. I am sure that is what pissed them off and caused them to take the actions that they did. I know it definately pissed off our TM's and caused us to take the actions that we are. It's cute how you justify your actions with accusing us of a fake war and calling our attacks weird. It's laughable that you explain your continued massacre attacks on game mechanics when the only reasonable explanation is you guys are just being d*cks and trying to ruin our age. Once again, this is just how a plebe sees it.

Now I know you think that since I really do not know what is going on and just follow orders that I should not post here, but sometimes it is good to hear from the soldiers and not just the generals. I would love to hear from your soldiers and see what their perception of what's going on between our two kingdoms. I can just imagine the conversation you have with them:

Soldier: "It looks like TBB wants to war us coming out of protection. We are equal size, Let's go to war!!!!"
General: "Calm down young Padawan. TBB is way too good for us. There leadership is strong and their activity is off the hook. Better we find some ghetto's to war with"

A few weeks later:
Soldier: "TBB wants to war us again. We are 3mil more NW that them, let's go get em!"
General: "Not yet noob, they are still to strong for us. Let's just give them some scientist and we will deal with them later"

Last week:
Soldier: "TBB just got out of war, and we are 10mil more NW than them. They are tagged for b2b war. What should we do??"
General: "Attack!!!!!"

I cannot imagine being a soldier in your kingdom. I mean, I would have quit after 1 day of massacre attacks, but they all stuck around for 4 days. lol Real courage you boys have there.

We reached out for a cf after wave 1. We would have been fine with that. If you are upset about the masses talk to your leadership. We had no choice. If we hadnt massed you would have just oped us and warred us after you pumped on your land and would have won.

[TheRealKremlin]

Also why does would sparta care if you waved us. That just helped them. We were actually trying to cf them for awhile but they weren't interested (not blaming, situation reversed I'd have done the same thing).

[TheRealKremlin]

Ed you don't seem like a bad guy. It honestly seems like your leadership really keeps you guys in the dark. That sucks and isn't how we run things.

[Meep]

See, i think the big difference between your b2b with Sparta and our b2b with Ronin's is that Bart did not seem to upset with us for hitting you and "ruining your b2b". You see one wave by us might have hurt a little, but I am sure Bart would have given you a couple days to recover and proceed with your b2b. One wave by you guys hurt us, but I am sure Ronin's would have given us a couple days to recover and proceed with our b2b. 4 days of massacring our TM's and there was no way we could recover to b2b Ronins. I am sure that is what pissed them off and caused them to take the actions that they did. I know it definately pissed off our TM's and caused us to take the actions that we are. It's cute how you justify your actions with accusing us of a fake war and calling our attacks weird. It's laughable that you explain your continued massacre attacks on game mechanics when the only reasonable explanation is you guys are just being d*cks and trying to ruin our age. Once again, this is just how a plebe sees it.

Now I know you think that since I really do not know what is going on and just follow orders that I should not post here, but sometimes it is good to hear from the soldiers and not just the generals. I would love to hear from your soldiers and see what their perception of what's going on between our two kingdoms. I can just imagine the conversation you have with them:

Soldier: "It looks like TBB wants to war us coming out of protection. We are equal size, Let's go to war!!!!"
General: "Calm down young Padawan. TBB is way too good for us. There leadership is strong and their activity is off the hook. Better we find some ghetto's to war with"

A few weeks later:
Soldier: "TBB wants to war us again. We are 3mil more NW that them, let's go get em!"
General: "Not yet noob, they are still to strong for us. Let's just give them some scientist and we will deal with them later"

Last week:
Soldier: "TBB just got out of war, and we are 10mil more NW than them. They are tagged for b2b war. What should we do??"
General: "Attack!!!!!"

I cannot imagine being a soldier in your kingdom. I mean, I would have quit after 1 day of massacre attacks, but they all stuck around for 4 days. lol Real courage you boys have there.

Ed.

Our hostile with Sparta was DAYS old at that point.

The meter had been maxed for days while Sparta refused to CF and op'd heavily.

Sparta would never have CF'd to give us a few days to recover after your wave because your wave was COORDINATED with sparta.

Both kingdoms admitted it.

Are you just plugging your ears here?

--

And again, about the massacres.

We had a lot of trouble in our b2b with Sparta, because of the severe meter throttling this age, combined with NW protection removal on ops, ops being made easier, ops killing more offense, etc.

If you can survive the initial onslaught long enough for the meter to reach max throttling, you can be in a really competitive position in a long drawn out hostile.

I hypothesized that similar to other gains/kills mods, massacre much like raze would not be negatively modified by meter throttling, and after the first few massacres it indeed seemed to be the case.

This is because these modifiers only affects gains and not losses. If you make an attack type that only causes losses (Raze and Massacre), you won't experience the throttling.

As for why massacre and not razes. Razing you just increases your tpa/wpa, while granting extensive GBP.

With GBP also comes a massive reduction in troop kills.

OOW Massacre has low enough damage that it doesn't actually cause enough damage per attack to trigger GBP.

This means that in a heavily meter throttled situation you can use it extensively to continue causing massive troop damage, and some iterative TPA/WPA damage over time.

There's your strategic explanation, and I'm sure the rest of our council can verify that I spent a very drunk evening poring over what the ideal strategy for prevailing in the drawn out hostile against a significantly more TM heavy KD with significant TPA and WPA edges would be, and yelled at gotti to switch to massacres until I was convincing enough :p

[lionell]

See, i think the big difference between your b2b with Sparta and our b2b with Ronin's is that Bart did not seem to upset with us for hitting you and "ruining your b2b". You see one wave by us might have hurt a little, but I am sure Bart would have given you a couple days to recover and proceed with your b2b. One wave by you guys hurt us, but I am sure Ronin's would have given us a couple days to recover and proceed with our b2b. 4 days of massacring our TM's and there was no way we could recover to b2b Ronins. I am sure that is what pissed them off and caused them to take the actions that they did. I know it definately pissed off our TM's and caused us to take the actions that we are. It's cute how you justify your actions with accusing us of a fake war and calling our attacks weird. It's laughable that you explain your continued massacre attacks on game mechanics when the only reasonable explanation is you guys are just being d*cks and trying to ruin our age. Once again, this is just how a plebe sees it.

Now I know you think that since I really do not know what is going on and just follow orders that I should not post here, but sometimes it is good to hear from the soldiers and not just the generals. I would love to hear from your soldiers and see what their perception of what's going on between our two kingdoms. I can just imagine the conversation you have with them:

Soldier: "It looks like TBB wants to war us coming out of protection. We are equal size, Let's go to war!!!!"
General: "Calm down young Padawan. TBB is way too good for us. There leadership is strong and their activity is off the hook. Better we find some ghetto's to war with"

A few weeks later:
Soldier: "TBB wants to war us again. We are 3mil more NW that them, let's go get em!"
General: "Not yet noob, they are still to strong for us. Let's just give them some scientist and we will deal with them later"

Last week:
Soldier: "TBB just got out of war, and we are 10mil more NW than them. They are tagged for b2b war. What should we do??"
General: "Attack!!!!!"

I cannot imagine being a soldier in your kingdom. I mean, I would have quit after 1 day of massacre attacks, but they all stuck around for 4 days. lol Real courage you boys have there.

You sure got exactly word for word...lol

[Paradise]

We miss 1 common statement in every war thread.

Clear FW!

[Uncle Ed]

I will admit that Krem and Meep are much smarter than I am when it comes to mechanics of this game. I am just wondering how smart they are when it comes to gameplay. You put yourself in a no win scenario. If it was a fake war between friends like you say, then don't you think the friends will get involved? If it was not a fake war, and you just interrupted a legit b2b war, then don't you think the other kingdom you screwed out of war would retaliate against you. No matter the scenario you put yourself in position to piss off two kingdoms at once. As smart as you are, that was not a wise decision on your part.

[Ovenmitt]

We miss 1 common statement in every war thread.

Clear FW!

We decided the best course of action is to donate all of our acres to 7:5 so they get actioned elsewhere.

it's a win/win really.

[Meep]

I will admit that Krem and Meep are much smarter than I am when it comes to mechanics of this game. I am just wondering how smart they are when it comes to gameplay. You put yourself in a no win scenario. If it was a fake war between friends like you say, then don't you think the friends will get involved? If it was not a fake war, and you just interrupted a legit b2b war, then don't you think the other kingdom you screwed out of war would retaliate against you. No matter the scenario you put yourself in position to piss off two kingdoms at once. As smart as you are, that was not a wise decision on your part.

I'm not seeing why that's an unwise decision?

What's wrong, are you mad we declared on Ronin's instead of you guys getting to declare and have Ronins help you secure a win?

[MaGiciaNz]

I'm not seeing why that's an unwise decision?

What's wrong, are you mad we declared on Ronin's instead of you guys getting to declare and have Ronins help you secure a win?

Thats where youre wrong. You gave TBB breathing space. Ronins wasnt going to hit into war. Now TBB can freely gain from you while you cant do anything