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Thread: Change Homes

  1. #1
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    Change Homes

    Remove the flat bonus from homes and give it a %-based increase to pop limit which caps at 20% at 30% coverage on 100% BE. Homes still do not provide jobs.

    Reason: remove current homespumping.
    Reason: homespumping invites KDs to stack very deeply and necessitates extensive down-time. It majorly favors passive gameplay and leads to more vulturing. At the same time the need to stack deeply leads to proxy-KDs doing theft for the whoring KDs AND leads to certain warring kingdoms getting major advantages over others through stealing from whoring KDs.

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    I'm not sure the majority of Utopia know what homes pumping is ... :)

    Trying to help my mid-tier kd use this concept during eowcf to help everyone recover and draft enough to not be vultured. It would be sad to lose this ability. I don't think 10 top-kd drama should dictate so much change for the whole of Utopia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Lady View Post
    I'm not sure the majority of Utopia know what homes pumping is ... :)

    Trying to help my mid-tier kd use this concept during eowcf to help everyone recover and draft enough to not be vultured. It would be sad to lose this ability. I don't think 10 top-kd drama should dictate so much change for the whole of Utopia.
    I wouldnt advise you to homespump in eow cf anyways since youll run out of jobs if u go above say 20-30%. My change still allows you to do run homes with effect in eow cf.

    Also, my idea would be to make the top 10 become the top 30. Weve already seen an increase in KDs going for land, lets continue that!

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    Hmmm ... true, mid-tier can't ever go past 30-40% homes because we can't hold onto our gold without being plundered and eowcf too short for that much drafting. I guess I don't understand how to use your proposed change with homes as % based yet.

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    Say you're on 0% pop sci no honor.

    25 pop space.

    30% homes in current meta would give you 3 extra pop space/acre.

    30% homes in new meta will give you 20% extra pop limit --> 5 pop space/acre

    80% homes in current meta gives you 8 pop/acre

    80% in new meta will give you 5 pop/acre

    The numbers may need tweaking, but that's the idea :)

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    Why do you care if people homespump? Why do you care if KDs have down time if they want to? Capacity has never been affected by BE and probably never will. 30% homes now will give you +12% pop, not +3 since that 10 extra pop is modified by other pop bonuses except racial and nobody has that right now. It takes 50% homes now to get +20% pop. What you're suggesting would make homes way OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilmington View Post
    Why do you care if people homespump? Why do you care if KDs have down time if they want to? Capacity has never been affected by BE and probably never will. 30% homes now will give you +12% pop, not +3 since that 10 extra pop is modified by other pop bonuses except racial and nobody has that right now. It takes 50% homes now to get +20% pop. What you're suggesting would make homes way OP.
    Literally every point you made and question you asked has already been answered by me above.

    I don't care if KDs have down-time, I care about the fact that the stacking curve vs use is too long.

    There is a reason science was changed --> to dis-incentivize passive game-play and to remove the advantages of down-time just sitting around.

    With current homes, having say 10K gc/acre vs having 3K gc/acre gives you an pretty much insurmountable advantage. What I'm looking at is to reduce this advantage to remove the (probably last) incentive to CF everyone plus remove a major FSU-ing nuisance from the game.

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    Science was changed because it was retarded. The effect is still the same if you are pumping science now. People are going to pump. They always have and they always will because there are buildings to pump with. People who pump should not be penalized because people choose not to pump. It's not rocket science reserved for the few. I use a minimum of 20% homes all the time. I know what they can do and not just for pumping.

    So you want to change something that has always been to affect KD relations?

    edit: If you have 10 gc/acre, you deserve what you get. If you have 3k gc/acre, well we have stealing, FG and plunder for that very purpose.
    Last edited by Wilmington; 20-10-2017 at 12:54.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilmington View Post
    Science was changed because it was retarded. The effect is still the same if you are pumping science now. People are going to pump. They always have and they always will because there are buildings to pump with. People who pump should not be penalized because people choose not to pump. It's not rocket science reserved for the few. I use a minimum of 20% homes all the time. I know what they can do and not just for pumping.

    So you want to change something that has always been to affect KD relations?

    edit: If you have 10 gc/acre, you deserve what you get. If you have 3k gc/acre, well we have stealing, FG and plunder for that very purpose.
    You seem to lack deeper understanding of the game. Old science wasn't changed because it was "retarded", it was changed because it severely affected (top)-gameplay. The effects with current science are far from the same. In old Sci I've reached +700% magic/thievery sci, I believe Godly got to +100% BE? That stuff isn't reachable anymore :)

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    Wilmington, If I understand correctly, this homes change proposal won't affect the majority of Utopia running 20% homes to draft/maintain BE etc (in fact it gives a better boost) ... its basically designed to normalize the gap between mid-tier and top.

    Top can afford to sit around on low/nw per acre, stack insane amounts of GC (50m+), then switch to 70+% homes, draft deep for 48 hours, train all of their 20 solds/acre in 1 fell swoop since the entire top is CF'ed.

    This insane GC stash is also often used to finance wars in the mid-tier. Imagine your kd on normal econ warring another kd of same size but they're stealing (or being "funded" by 1 of these top kds) so that they can churn out more military and dragons on you. End result you lose the war due to this massive econ disadvantage. The payment the winning KD makes is free land to the gold funder post war.

    This change would mean that the top and mid-tier pumps pretty much the same way and there's less "under the table" style of playing. It will still be done but not to such an extreme.

    The change also benefits those at the top. Lets say KD A and KD B have war agreed in 72 hours, allies of KD A will steal the massive GC stash from KD B to give KD A the advantage, thus affecting the war outcome.
    Last edited by Winter Lady; 20-10-2017 at 15:49. Reason: typo

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    I guess if "mid-tier" KDs are doing that, they're really not mid-tier, they suck with some help from above. If you think changing homes is really going to affect that, you're wrong. There is always a way to stockpile GC, draft...etc. What this would do is force everyone to run 20% or w/e homes and so you might as well scrap them and make pop 20/30. Avian BR gets watered down in a big way because everyone has +75%. Pop science becomes meh because everyone has +20% from homes. You're thinking about how this might have some minor effect on a minor issue without thinking about what changes like that would do to the rest of the game.

    Look, these KDs will always find a way to do what they want to do. If you want the top KDs to fight it out instead of funding wannabes, give them something to fight for like +10% scientists. With the soft cap now, that would be worth something.

    edit: There should only be 1 Crown and that should be given to the war champion. Top 4 ww score KDs get NW adjusted to match and have a playoff the last 2 weeks of the age. You get a ring for land, NW and honor. This is a game based on war and the best warring KDs should be the winners.
    Last edited by Wilmington; 20-10-2017 at 17:24.

  12. #12
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    This is my suggestion, get your own!

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    lol, my original idea was to have an age long tourney. I felt it needed toning down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Lady View Post
    Wilmington, If I understand correctly, this homes change proposal won't affect the majority of Utopia running 20% homes to draft/maintain BE etc (in fact it gives a better boost) ... its basically designed to normalize the gap between mid-tier and top.

    Top can afford to sit around on low/nw per acre, stack insane amounts of GC (50m+), then switch to 70+% homes, draft deep for 48 hours, train all of their 20 solds/acre in 1 fell swoop since the entire top is CF'ed.

    This insane GC stash is also often used to finance wars in the mid-tier. Imagine your kd on normal econ warring another kd of same size but they're stealing (or being "funded" by 1 of these top kds) so that they can churn out more military and dragons on you. End result you lose the war due to this massive econ disadvantage. The payment the winning KD makes is free land to the gold funder post war.

    This change would mean that the top and mid-tier pumps pretty much the same way and there's less "under the table" style of playing. It will still be done but not to such an extreme.

    The change also benefits those at the top. Lets say KD A and KD B have war agreed in 72 hours, allies of KD A will steal the massive GC stash from KD B to give KD A the advantage, thus affecting the war outcome.
    You totally get it :)

    By removing absolute need for deep homes pumping you also remove the need for long CFs, insane stacking and what that also does to the warring tier with gc for land farm deals etc. The first numbers I gave admittedly are a tad off. I suggest 15% pop bonus at 30% homes on 100% BE. 15% is cap.

  15. #15
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    There is no absolute need for deep homes pumping. You are making this a way bigger issue than it is. You act like homes pumping is the only way they can do it. So let me get this straight. Some mid-tier KDs are being funded by top KDs because they're sitting around doing nothing with 80% homes and you seem to think screwing with something that's been there from the start is going to solve that issue. An issue so minor, most people don't even know what it is.

    So you want to move the pop aspect of homes from capacity to % based. You really don't think they would make a new category just for homes. Now you're screwing with the 90% of the rest of the server who use homes so your few KDs have a little tougher time.

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