Undead/Warrior

[olAllan]

Okay, it seems kind of kitschy but the combo comes in handy when you return to the game 7 weeks into a short age.

As HA it does it's job very well. The undead's enhanced offense specialists and mighty 11 offensive point elites compliment the warriors offense modifying bonuses wonderfully.

Many players would get that right away but also the undead/warrior eliminates the need for both farms (undead) and potentially eliminates the need for training grounds (warrior). By most standards of play this provides the province with 18-23% of building space (that is assuming -8% farms and -10-15% for training grounds).

Personally, I find the versatility in what can be done with the extra acres refreshingly pragmatic. I used the excess acres to build and maintain about 20% barracks (in and ouy of wars) providing me with reasonable swift armies. Which is well because you need to plunder and abduct constantly to keep up development (being nonrouge undead).

Though I opted out of it, due to the before mentioned acreage the combo could be pretty easily made into an nonmystic A/M as well. I didn't do that this time for obvious reasons.

I hope that someone finds these thoughts on undead/warrior helpful some day. Players have their preferences, so I will forgo boring you all with the specifics of my "build strat" (I have a few modes with this one).

[StratOcastle]

Very cool.

It's nice to see some alternative thinking illustrated here. The strategy forum can become a wasteland because players don't share their vision. For those who want to win at all cost I understand, but for those of us who prefer challenge we should share.

My perspective is if I offer strategy that is used against me I can adapt and progress to deeper strategies.

[olAllan]

:)

I've always toed my own lines in Utopia.

[Bokou]

I love reading other people's insight into strategies for builds. Wish there was more of this in these forums. Thanks for sharing!

[RattleHead]

UD/Warrior is definitely built to roll right OOP, you have some issue with lack of spells for A/M... maybe call it A/m :P

I agree with StratO, I like to think I am a similar player at heart, but I have settled down in recent Ages and follow most of the paradigms in the game today.

I think it would be interesting if the community tried to regularly feature abstract/exotic Provinces. For example we could look at the Survey of Races and have some discussion about any combination we see <5 (I like the idea of Dryad Paladin for example, but there are only 3 right now) ... Potentially even luring one of these 'rare birds' to share with us what they are up to. In contrast we can take the more popular picks, and ask how people would play them in an unorthodox or out of the box manner, like the OP seems to suggest with his Warrior Wizards...

[olAllan]

@Bokou - Thank you man. We do what we can. :)

@RattleHead- I know what your saying, and it is a typical concern when I talk about A/Ming something exoctic. Naturally this concern is allayed by the fact that every combo has Fireballs. I would say A/m, is far, if I were to A/M with the combo I would shoot for about 3-4 raw wpa and modify it as much as possible. Once you have 6-8 mod wpa you'll fry most attackers but I'm sure you know that.

I think there are 30 some undead/warrriors at (not logged in now to confirm that). I am a bit surprised about the number of undead/war heroes. I might be missing something about it but I don't sse the appeal unless I were looking to hybridize it. lol but whatever, apologies, I think I'm a little off topic.

[RattleHead]

I always assumed people just like the extra conversions, and then the other stuff is kinda an afterthought (dragon/income penalty immunity, extra gains, and honor bonus. For BoA the 800 Elites is pretty alright too, I guess.

[LuckySports]

The appeal for undead war hero is the combination of dragon and income penalty immunization. For the oldies coming back, especially from the ages where killing dragons took a lot of time and soldiers, that is a big thing, and undead, without any thief ops, tend to run lower TPAs, so protection from riots is also nice. Extra converts on top of what undead already get is also nice, especially if you get chained and need to rebuild your elite base quickly without getting too land-fat. And for an A/m, pitfalls are also useful, pop it on a chain target just before the wave starts and you don't have to hope one of your T/Ms happen to be online (not an issue in top kingdoms I'm sure)

I personally find warrior to be a bit more suiting this age, I haven't seen as much dragon action out of the top kingdoms, most are killed within a few ticks, which serves to potentially tank someones military, but the benefits of the dragon are usually short lived, 1 wave at best. The extra OME and military science can put out some decent offensive numbers. Undead are one of the hardest races to keep down with a chain, you have to plan it well, or else all you kill is their defense.

[olAllan]

I see says the blind Allan. I didn't realize that the conversion rate was increased under that combo. I made an assumption myself RattleHead. I assumed that the conversion rate was static. That, like when you chose undead/cleric you gain plague immunity . . . which you already have as undead. So the gain is nil. I

LuckySports, I think they've done pretty good making warrior more useful. In my opinion, the personality still needs one little tweak. The buttloads of offense it produces is exactly what someone would want from the personality, however if they were to add the +1 general it would complete it. Not only would it provide an addition 3% for the offence it also allows the personality crank out 5 rather than 4 hits optimizing effectiveness at harnessing it. And I think I slid off topic again. Offering a sug in a strategy thread and all. Oops.

[LuckySports]

I think that would make the personality too powerful, an extra attack in war can go a LONG way, like, doubling your land in a single wave.

Undead/Cleric has it's uses to be sure, defensive losses are pretty harsh, even without stacking losses, and the population science bonus is a boon to any attacker. For undead, keeping those few extra elites alive can make a difference in the long run. The bonuses are a bit redundant for undead, but not enough so that it isn't a viable alternative.

Although, I still believe that undead need rogue for them to truly be the best attacker, not being able to kidnap or rob other attackers is rough, something I didn't think I would miss as much.

Edit: I should note that rogue is a personality quirk, the numbers probably don't agree with me.

[StratOcastle]

Quirks look like waste to players not leaning into the nuances. For instance, undead rogue is sometimes seen as a useless rogue by rigid thinkers and not a complete attacker.

I'm an advocate of undead cleric myself and used the static nw as an anchor point for zone/gap tactics. I found variations of this theme in exploring different races. When I adopted an orc cleric I found the offense carved a more defined edge to the zones and I could more easily establish a one province blockade.

I've slowly mutated into a cleric aficionado. Some of my most formidable builds were t/m races as cleric. I've run elf cleric in top territory and asserted the build with confidence with only 5 weeks left in the age.

Edit: One of the most interesting events I've seen in a while was in our most recent war.

The enemy chained were, perhaps by accident, retaining different advantages. Ill use the word 'astonished' because complex strats in this sector are rare. ~

~ One province was very balanced and defensively higher than most chained. One retained his wpa and another his tpa. They didn't exploit this strength though they each took a piece of me through the war. Apparently, the one retaining wpa unleashed some ops on our t/ms. The guy with high defense was playing peekaboo and aped what we'd commonly recognize as camping. To put this in context, one has to understand the nominal activity in casual kingdoms. So what we're seeing are intelligent and pragmatic choices made by players that aren't committing their lives to the game.

[LuckySports]

If you go rogue, you have to be willing to put a bit of effort into making the build that fits it, but it definitely makes a difference as undead, being able to kidnap to recover your population after a massive FB run can be a game-changer if they don't catch it for a day.

I got chained in a war a while back, and had a WPA somewhere around 6 or so depending how far into the re-chain they were, I was using this mostly to MV my kdmates, but when I had the extra runes and mana, and our big guys were MS and chastity free, I would do OP runs on a bocan in the enemy kingdom. MV to get rid of NB, then storms, greed, and FBs with the rest of my mana/runes. It was a good time ^_^ They started to massacre me after that. I still had one of the highest offenses in either kingdom though, so I couldn't complain too much.


The more undeads there are, the more I appreciate cleric. Halfway through the age, I had started to think an Orc Cleric core could really wreck people in war if used properly, especially long-term. Cleric + Hospitals would help increase longevity of the elites, and the extra losses on the enemy kingdom, mixed with pitfalls, bribe general, and onslaught ritual, you should be able to take down just about anyone with a little planning.

[Winter Lady]

OlAllen and Lucky, thanks for the insight.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on Orc/Cleric vs Orc/War Hero.

[LuckySports]

I feel like that one is easy, but I'll hit up each personality point by point..

War Hero:
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful Traditional March attacks - This can be handy in a long war, as you can use your spec credits to build off specs and convert them into elites. Not super efficient, but better than nothing.
Immune to Dragon - This is overrated nowadays, since most kingdoms kill their dragons quickly, and don't usually get a 2nd one (at least from what I've seen) That doesn't apply to top play, where two dragons are funded and sent very quickly.
Immune to income penalty effects - This is always amazing, riots being useless is very nice.
+5% Battle Gains - Adds into Orcs already +30% gains, doesn't change much at that point.
+100% Honor Bonuses - Nice on those occasions when you, as an attacker manages to keep some honor. Not as useful as it would seem, since your honor will likely vary widely through the age as you get chained in one war, then recover fully in the next.

-35% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense) - HUGE benefit, does a good job of counter-acting the 10% extra losses that Orc already takes. Mixes well with hospitals.
Immune to The Plague - Another awesome benefit, since 1/3 of the server is currently undead.
+15% Population Science Effectiveness - Goes well with any build, being able to put more offense/defense out and still maintain some semblance of an economy is handy.


Overall: My vote goes for Cleric, the benefits work very well with Orc, who tend to try to run an all-elite offense, the longer you keep those elites alive, the longer you remain a thorn in whatever kingdom you are warring's side. War hero has it's benefits, but they pale at the sustainability that cleric gives you.

[kendy]

I am Undead Rogue. I have to steal. I cant not steal! BUT...
My question is about my guilds. I have 450 guilds, so I make 8.5 wiz per tick.
Do I get 8 wiz one tick and 9 the next? Is this 8.5 averaged over time? OR do I only get the 8 wiz per tick but gain on self spells cast?