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  1. #1
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    Science diminishing returns

    I didn't play for the last few ages but I'm thinking about going back for the next one as a t/m. Does anyone know the diminishing returns on the science? All I have is some raw data from KD mates but it's not enough for accurate calculations.

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    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    I am working on a curve right now; not a huge variety of info in it yet, so not sure of the reliability, and the rounding on science page is annoying too!

    y = 1.018054e^-0.006045x (ONLY ACCURATE UP TO ~60 points over the cap ... I have an updated curve below)

    where y is the effectiveness of the category in question, and x is the number of skill points over the cap in that category.

    recruit = 0 skill points
    novice = 1 skill point
    graduate = 1.5 skill points
    professor = 2 skill points

    in a few days ill probably create more data points by moving/stacking a lot of science in couple categories
    Last edited by RattleHead; 05-11-2017 at 02:20. Reason: i got some more data, updated equation

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    Stealing some info from the Utopia Talk thread, I had to change from exponential to a polynomial description... Obviously this can't be right because it starts to curve back up eventually- but it should be fairly accurate up to at least the point where X = 180. This 180 value represents 90 (ninety) Professors over the category's cap... If you get substantially beyond this point let me know :P

    Y =[1.9*(10^-5)]X^2 - [6.35*(10^-3)]X + 1.02

    Where;
    X = # of Skill Points above the cap of the category in question
    Y = The effectiveness of the category in question
    Last edited by RattleHead; 05-11-2017 at 02:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    Stealing some info from the Utopia Talk thread, I had to change from exponential to a polynomial description... Obviously this can't be right because it starts to curve back up eventually- but it should be fairly accurate up to at least the point where X = 180. This 180 value represents 90 (ninety) Professors over the category's cap... If you get substantially beyond this point let me know :P

    Y =[1.9*(10^-5)]X^2 - [6.35*(10^-3)]X + 1.02

    Where;
    X = # of Skill Points above the cap of the category in question
    Y = The effectiveness of the category in question
    I started to try and figure this out last age by looking at only military on my undead sage. I went up to 44 profs in that catagory and then reassigned them one at a time to other catagories and noted the percentages each time. Do you want these numbers? I gave up on trying to do anything with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke3 View Post
    I started to try and figure this out last age by looking at only military on my undead sage. I went up to 44 profs in that catagory and then reassigned them one at a time to other catagories and noted the percentages each time. Do you want these numbers? I gave up on trying to do anything with it.
    I would love those numbers

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    Thanks for the posts.

    I used the last formula you provide with 5 profs and got 0.988725 but does this apply to all categories? Different categories have different multiplayer is it ignored?

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    Did you plot them separately? I'm thinking it's much easier and based on % over cap. That would give a slightly different curve for each category.

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    Forum Addict RattleHead's Avatar
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    I've been plotting them all together, and it seems more to more or less follow the same curve from what I can see. You could be right that the curve is slightly different for each category, but I am pretty lazy, and this seems fairly accurate so far :)

    Each category is separate, going over the cap in one does not change effect in any others. Category in Question only
    Last edited by RattleHead; 04-11-2017 at 13:56.

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    Okay, so based on what you've said, the 10th professor past the cap in a category is still getting about 85% of the effect of the "below-cap" professors, (your two functions plots very close together).

    Am I reading this right? I thought the returns diminished much quicker than this!

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    Really, because if so, I'm dumping 45 scientists into my Dwarf Sage as we speak.

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    Thanks, but I am confident I have enough data, up to the x = 180 mark anyways... If you get more than that this Age drop me some info at that point!

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    which formula is accurate up to 180 skill points?
    They diverge a lot at 180. (90 professors). one shows about 50% effect and the other 34%.

    I repeat, are you sure these are correct? I didn't do any math last age but I thought I was seeing a drop of 50% effectiveness as early as the 10th professor. That contrasts sharply with the formulas you've posted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvorak View Post
    which formula is accurate up to 180 skill points?
    They diverge a lot at 180. (90 professors). one shows about 50% effect and the other 34%.

    I repeat, are you sure these are correct? I didn't do any math last age but I thought I was seeing a drop of 50% effectiveness as early as the 10th professor. That contrasts sharply with the formulas you've posted.
    The second one, where it mentions the 180 in the post along with the formula(I've edited my original post). I definitely can confirm 10 profs over does not result 50% effect. I made direct observations from my province, and KD mates at/around 30 profs over the cap, and the categories come out at about 70% of what they would be if those professors were giving full effects.

    @Wilmington I did not try to use the other in-game examples of diminishing gains, like you suggests, so its entirely possible.

    I'm just using simple excel trendline to make the curve... I would imagine its a cubic function... around the 180 point it has more or less leveled out, I expect with info that went beyond there we would see the rate of diminish pick up again.

    @yootohpeega I am not sure what you mean... every 2X = 1 Professor

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post
    @yootohpeega I am not sure what you mean...

    @RattleHead
    What I mean is, would you be kind enough to share with us your raw data?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RattleHead View Post

    @yootohpeega I am not sure what you mean... every 2X = 1 Professor

    You are using different X's. Yootohpeega's X is the professor where the additional benefit of that prof is 50% the full amount. Your X is the amount of skill points over the cap you are.

    It would be great if someone could translate the formula into something like a rule of thumb (which is what I think Yootohpeega was trying to get at). ie I need to decide how far over the cap to go. How many extra skill points can I have before the gain drops to (a) 75% of normal for that extra skill point (b) 50%, (c) 25% (d) 10%. Or something like that. A chart from 90% down to 10% at 10% intervals would be even more wonderful ;)

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